Abbandon as Fortune said, It is the Response rating that is the limiter for programs. System lets you know how many applications you can have running at a time at your Response level.

So for a 'link of Response 5 Signal 5 System 5 Firewall 6
I can 5 applications running at Rating 5
If I run 6 applications my Response drops by 1 to 4. All my applications are now running at Rating 4 no matter what rating I bought them at.

Now KCKitsune If you purchase an Agent/IC you can run it at your response level (5) but every program it has running counts against your System rating.
So let us say you have a Watchdog Agent IC running at Rating 5
-Analyze
-Track
-Armor
-Attack/Blackhammer

This agent when it is running will count against 4 of your 5 application slots. If you have anything else activatly running your Response rating will drop by 1 and so will all of your applications and your Agent. They would all be effectivly 4
Your Firwall will still be 6 as it is not affected by what your System or Response rating is set to. So for any one to hack your comlink your Agent will roll your Firewall (6) + Analyze (5) to detect them.

@Fortune. Thats for things like systems and drones and commlinks dude. An agent get its own firewall attribute and it is = to pilot.(pg227, AGENTS, second paragraph)

I guess this would turn into a 50/50 debate. My opinion is that you can not buy/make an R6 (3k, pg321) Firewall program and stuff it into your agent. The agent doesnt get its own response attribute either, like a system, drone, commlink does. Besides the book explicitly stating that pilot = firewall on a drone, I just feel like they are incompatable. Firewall is essentially a defense skill and everything else about an AGENT has limits. Programs are capped at rating, system is capped at rating. Firewalls dont get capped in systems, drones, or commlinks but i think for agents they do.

Unwired could contradict bbb and provide rules for upgrading an agents firewall and it could be as simple as shelling out 3k nuyen but right now its is not allowed.

@magus your not even close to what me and Fortune are talking about go away lol.

Agents have Firewall=Pilot rating. They can only load programs, but Firewall is a matrix attribute, not a program (thats why it is not limited by response).

Response 5 is degraded when 5 programs are running, not if more than 5 programs are running.

@Kitsune: Yes. LoneStar would trace the offending signal to its source (you). You carry a comlink with the offending matrix ID. The comlinks are not connected, as you are just spoofing the offending matrix ID with the hidden comlink. When LS comes to search you, you turn the hidden comlink OFF, and claim that someone else has to have hacked you. Not even a search for hidden nodes will detect anything. If you want to make the story more believable, have an "independent" agent on your comlink that is constantly deleting all kinds of potentially incriminating logs (a hacker would have done that, and you get rid of even more potential evidence.Win-Win).

Well since my character is not a hacker and I wouldn't actively using my 'Link while the Agent was working it's magic, I'm not worried about reaching my program limit.

So then we're both right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



Well, technically they can only ever have one rating in an Agent ... the rating of the Agent itself. As Ryu stated (and I failed miserably in my attempts to illustrate the difference (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), Firewall is a Matrix Attribute, not a Program, and as such does not fall under the rules for programs and loads and limits and such.

@Fortune I guess it was my fault. I thought somewhere you had said you could upgrade the firewall on a agent but you were only trying to say that it doesn't get affected by other attributes changing. My bad.

@KC heh i think one of your questions got lost in the discussions.
"Do programs run at their full rating or the rating of the agent"

Programs get capped at agent rating when an agent trys to use them. If your mage never plans on using the programs himself then you only need to buy them at the same rating as your agent. R4 agents are the normal max because of availability, so R4 programs are all they need.

Although eccm, spoof, stealth should probably still be maxed out.

And Analyze!

Why would Analyze be at full rating rather than the rating of the agent?

Why would anyone by an off the shelf Dell when you can build a better PC for cheaper? Not only is it cost efficient it makes you Leet.

Because the mage will need analyse for his own matrix use. The agent rating limits the better software, but the better software is already paid for, as opposed to a lower-rated one only for the agent.

Because you can also run Analyze on your commlink at the same time (so why not have it at full rating?), increasing your chances of detecting a hacking attempt.

Actually, I did build my own machine. I went with dual processors back in 2001 (still have that machine and it still works great). AMD Athlon MP 2000, 1 GB RAM, DVD Rewritable drive, Regular DVD drive, 4 Hard drives with 1 TB total space.



If the agent is running on my commlink then it would count towards the program limit for reducing Response, correct? Would it just be better to load the Agent and it's programs into the node my team needs to crack?



But if my mage has no skill in hacking would he know what the Analyse program was telling him?

Whoa....you just went from having an agent for purely defensive reasons to now wanting to use it to crack nodes?? Are you really sure you want to divide your character between two "classes"? You got all the money you need to buy focus's and summoningg supplies and crap of that nature to buy fiddling with the matrix too?

With your character your agent will probably never leave your own node. Not unless you want to be part hacker and take on a bunch of extra skills and crap.

Analyze is a common use program (computer). I guess you want it maxed out to so you can go into your node and scan for enemy hackers yourself. But I dont think that is necessary at the start. Your agent is gonna be Pilot 4 + analyze 4 or 8 dice. You would be Computer X + Analyze 6. Which is more? get analyze at that rating.

Is your character name "B*tch" ?? Is everyone else just holding guns an healing kits while you are off blasting stuff with spells and hacking drones??

B*tch cast invis on me!!!
B*tch improve my reflxes!!!
B*tch omg take out that elemental!!
B*tch omg hack the door you moron
B*tch take over that drone!!
B*tch ahhh I've been hit, heal me!!!
Good job B*tch now command the van to meet us over here.

Everyone else, "phew that was hard work. B*tch your lucky we let you come with us!! Start pulling your own weight!"

Abbandon, that is a very valid question/statement and I think I might just go with the "I want secure comms" route... In the future I would talk with the hacker in the group and have him hook me up with those programs... though I would have to trust him implicitly... a hard thing to do.

Personaly I think I'd question whether or not you really want an implanted commlink or if a datajack wouldn't be able to handle what you'd actually be likely to need if you are looking for secure data storage and encypted comms.

And with that I would like to see a new thread where KC posts the entire character sheet and a short description of what he wants his mage to do and what he envisions him becomng throughout the game, a character concept. The inbedded commlink he hinted at coming from this guys ex military background like maybe before he awakened. Maybe his little soldier dude got exposed to something and awakened.

The reason I went with a Commlink rather than a Datajack is that the 'jack has no comm ability. Also, I think while the Datajack might allow you to slot chips, the Commlink has memory storage ability. The following is page 212 of the PDF version of the BBB:


this was in the little black message block on that page



I'll see about uploading a PDF copy of my character sheet. I created the character in Daegaan's character generator and then edited it in Open Office. I still have to come up with a good character concept and not have it sound lame or stupid. I mean how many times have you heard of the "Ex military hard core types"? I want something a little more flavorful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Storage memory is trivial. You can store stuff on you Datajack, your Armor Jacket, your Rifle butt, your Shoes, your toaster, etc, etc ...

I know. I was just responding to Ravor when he said about using a datajack for secure data storage.

Excuse me? A datajack does provide secure data storage, and as an implanted device with direct hardwired DNI it is almost impossible for someone to prevent you from sending a mental command to delete any offending data that is stored on it and then cover your tracks. Of course, an implanted commlink also provides the same ability, my comment was aimed at whether or not a soldier would use the additional functions of an implanted commlink enough to be worth the extra cost to the military, especially considering that as Nodes datajacks are fully capable of running programs on their own.

As for datajacks not providing comms, huh? At worse they get the same ( Signal Rating ) as other headware, and depending on how you read the upgrading section for the various grades of cyberware their signal rating can get fairly decent. (Provided that I'm remembering correctly, I don't have my books handy at the moment to double check.)

I am building an ex-soldier at the moment, and I go with a datajack for the matrix aspect. My commlinks will be plug&play, I´m going to have the datajack at the hip and include a pocket for the Comlink/SimModule in my FFBA. The official comlink gets to be placed on my belt, like it should be for an AR-only user. It is unlikely that a normal LS officer detects such a small object hidden under clothing, after he already found "the" comlink and is therefore only searching for weapons.

Can Datajacks run programs? How does that work?

As with any node. Datajacks can not replace a comlink, but they can at the very least use encryption (Duh!), Stealth (for being in hidden mode), and Agents/IC as any node can. Communication is one of their functions, they can handle it (intended for wired use, but the interface should not care).

Hmmmmmm. I would not allow datajacks to operate like cyber commlinks.. If you did that why not your cyber eyeball or ear? Your aluminum bone lacing?? Your AR Glove? Hmmmm....

Well at the very least that stuff would have a signal range of 0 and I would not allow upgrades. If you had somebody tinker around with it with a hardware test you would get your signal boost but I would make there be other penalties lol. Put it in your eyeball? gun flashes makes your eyeball shut off. Put it in your ear and enhancing the audio makes you hear a whirring and clicking noise lol.

Also with the datajack I'd call that direct brain access for black ic and you would count as hot sim 24/7.

If it was so easy to turn a datajack into a commlink nobody would have freaking commlinks because who wouldnt want the ability of two devices in one??