Biocompatability Rules question |
Biocompatability Rules question |
Feb 16 2008, 05:50 AM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
OK everyone, I have a question for everyone. I am making a combat mage with some cyber/bioware to increase his survival chances and saw the Biocompatability quality. This would allow my mage to squeeze in just that much more 'ware and still only have a decrease of his magic by 1. I have .7 in Bioware and .72 in cyberware and the Biocompatability is in cyberware.
The question is how to do the math: Method 1) (.72 * .9) + (.7 * 1/2) = .998 essence loss (the Raw cyberware was in greater quantity so bioware only costs 1/2) Method 2) (.72 * .9 * 1/2) + .7 = 1.024 essence loss (the cyberware, after Biocompatability, is in less quantity so it only costs 1/2) Method 3) (.72 * .4) + .7 = .988 essence loss (because decreases in essense cost add up and are not multiplied (1/2 for being in less quantity and 10% savings for biocompatability for a decrease of 60% ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Before anyone asks, I looked at the whole thread about the Augmentation for this question (the download feature only got the first 12 pages), AND emailed Synner this question. Since I haven't heard anything from Synner, I thought that I would put this out for everyone to answer. |
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Feb 16 2008, 06:05 AM
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#2
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
My reading of the rules for Biocompatibility is that the quality lowers "the Essence Cost of implants" (p. 20, Augmentation). The Essence cost is reduced for each implant, such that, as far as the character is concerned, the reduced cost is the only cost there's ever been. That suggests that the "take the discount off for the quality" step comes before "figure out whether cyberware or bioware Essence loss is greater" step. I believe that's your Method 2.
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Feb 16 2008, 06:12 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'm chucking my vote in for #2.
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Feb 16 2008, 07:31 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,212 |
I'd have to vote #2 also.
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Feb 16 2008, 07:38 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
#2 I'm afraid. In your case the ten percent reduction from biocompatibility is applied immediately to the cyberware essence loss and then the cyber/bio losses are compared and the lower halved, as in #2.
Oh, and please post your augmentation choices, I'm always interested in low essence cost combinations. [edit: totally missed Aaron's post, what he said] |
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Feb 16 2008, 07:41 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 14-February 08 Member No.: 15,682 |
#2 as well
first add up how much essence each kind of ware costs (including grade) and then half the cost of the lesser one. |
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Feb 16 2008, 07:48 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Okay, I'm creeped out. This thread has way exceeded Dumpshock's agreement quotient for the week.
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Feb 16 2008, 08:22 AM
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#8
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
By RAW, it depends very much on when you put in each piece of 'ware and when you gain the Biocompatibility Quality. Remember, Bioware and Cyberware Essence Holes are tracked separately.
Let us say that you get .72 worth of cyberware first and then get .7 of bioware and then obtain the Biocompatibility Quality via karma purchase. Your total essence loss will be .72 + .7/2. You'll have .72 worth of cyberware essence loss but due to the biocompatibility you'll gain a cyberware essence hole of .72/10 |
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Feb 16 2008, 08:30 AM
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#9
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Look at the bright side, you're already past the 1.0 mark, so now you might as well look into burning 2.0 on purpose, more toys are always better.
A burnout? Who me? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) |
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Feb 16 2008, 08:58 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
#2 is it.
Also, to clarify somewhat what hyzmarca said (I had to read it a few times), it really depends on the order in which things happen. If somehow you gained the quality after chargen (meaning it isnt genetic and thus....... I dont know how it could happen), youre lost essence would not come back, it is gone forever. This also applies to adapsin genetech. All the implants after it will be at *.9, but it will not lower the essence already lost. As for the solution: Look at the bright side, you're already past the 1.0 mark, so now you might as well look into burning 2.0 on purpose, more toys are always better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) Just pump yourself full of metal, dont worry, the gains far outweigh the losses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) |
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Feb 16 2008, 09:15 AM
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#11
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well in theory if you had enough money you could get teh genetech done followed by having every last piece of metal ripped out of your body and reinstalled with a couple extra toys. (Seriously, I know that most people don't play it this way, but a Mage is simply crazy for not burning 2.0 Essence and getting her extra IPs from bioware instead of mojo.)
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Feb 16 2008, 09:19 AM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
None of the above.
Biocompatibility is per implant. like Implant grades (and adds to them, making the table Used x1.1 - Standard x0.9 - Alpha x0.7 - Beta x0.6 - Delta x0.4)... involving rounding, possibly. Yeah, Betaware still sucks in SR4. |
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Feb 16 2008, 09:45 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Biocompatibility is per implant. You are mistaken. QUOTE (Augmentation pg. 20) Biocompatability Cost: 10 BP Something about the character’s body is exceptionally accepting of either bioware or cyberware implants (choose one). Not only are the implants not rejected, but they seamlessly fit within the body, having less impact on its holistic integrity. In game terms, the Essence Cost of implants of the particular chosen type are reduced by 10 percent. This reduction does not apply to genetech. This quality may only be taken once. |
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Feb 16 2008, 11:03 AM
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#14
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
You are mistaken. Nope. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) QUOTE In game terms, the Essence Cost of implants of the particular chosen type are reduced by 10 percent. Also, that calculation was stated by the devs in the Augmentation questions thread. |
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Feb 16 2008, 11:23 AM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe you should explain your position a little clearer, as I am having problems figuring out what you are actually arguing about.
You made the statement that Biocompatibility applies to only a single implant. This is wrong, as I said above (I did not quote any other part of your post). I don't think anyone is arguing that Biocompatibility does not reduce the Essence cost by 10%. The discussion is about when that 10% discount occurs, in relation to the comparison of Bio/cyber implants for the purposes of determining actual Essence loss (which type of implants are halved). |
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Feb 16 2008, 11:49 AM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
You made the statement that Biocompatibility applies to only a single implant. Sorry if not making my point clear - my statement is that the reduction directly applies the implant's Essence cost, not the total essence cost, nor the relative essence cost. Biocompatibility is treated exactly like Implant Grades or Adapsin - and those percentages simply add up before calculation. BTW: Biocompatibility (Cyberware), like Adapsin also applies to 'Nano'-cyber implants - Biocompatibility (Bioware), on the other hand, doesn't apply to GeneTech. |
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Feb 16 2008, 12:42 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
OK, everybody is asking about what implants I had:
Cyber (all alpha grade) - Commlink, Cybereyes (level 3), Cyberears (level 2) Bioware - Synaptic Booster (level 1), Cerebral Booster (level 1) The reason I didn't want to use the full two points of essence is that my character's a mage, not a sammie. I took just enough 'ware to make him dangerous... not ungodly. |
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Feb 16 2008, 12:51 PM
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#18
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Cyber (all alpha grade) - Commlink, Cybereyes (level 3), Cyberears (level 2) So, with BC, the modifier for Alphaware is 0.7, resulting in the following essence costs: 0.14 + 0.28 + 0.21 = 0.63 Bioware - Synaptic Booster (level 1), Cerebral Booster (level 1) That would be 0.5 + 0.2 = 0.7 For a total: 0.7 + 0.63/2 = 1.015 Tough luck - still more than one point of essense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Consider downgrading the eye to level 2. |
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Feb 16 2008, 12:55 PM
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#19
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Is it to late to join in on this group hug thing? I´m also for option 2!
The solution for going just under 1 pt of essence is taking Cyberears rating 1 (Damper+Audio Enhancement). |
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Feb 16 2008, 01:46 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 285 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 8,495 |
So, with BC, the modifier for Alphaware is 0.7, resulting in the following essence costs: 0.14 + 0.28 + 0.21 = 0.63 That would be 0.5 + 0.2 = 0.7 For a total: 0.7 + 0.63/2 = 1.015 Tough luck - still more than one point of essense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Consider downgrading the eye to level 2. Drop the Ears by start and buy them during game as betaware, they aren't that expansive and so after a few runs you should be able to pay them. cya Tycho |
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Feb 16 2008, 02:45 PM
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#21
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
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Feb 16 2008, 02:47 PM
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#22
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Only if one does not need the Recoder and Sound Link.
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Feb 16 2008, 03:10 PM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Sorry if not making my point clear - my statement is that the reduction directly applies the implant's Essence cost, not the total essence cost, nor the relative essence cost. Biocompatibility is treated exactly like Implant Grades or Adapsin - and those percentages simply add up before calculation. And that is pretty much exactly what everyone else had said prior to your post stating we were wrong. The reduction is calculated before the two different types of implants are compared. |
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Feb 16 2008, 03:20 PM
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#24
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, not quite:
Option #2 calculates Implant Essence Cost x Alphaware x Biocompatibility - which is wrong. It is Implant Essence Cost x (Alphaware + Biocompatibility). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Feb 16 2008, 03:21 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Im pretty sure this topic is in the FAQ also. And im pretty sure they said Add up all the implants, then apply the biocomp, then half whichever side is less.
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