IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

8 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Adarael
post Feb 20 2008, 07:01 PM
Post #26


Deus Absconditus
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,742
Joined: 1-September 03
From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS
Member No.: 5,566



Sir, you are incisive in your deductions. I approve.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rasumichin
post Feb 20 2008, 07:25 PM
Post #27


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,300
Joined: 6-February 08
From: Cologne, Germany
Member No.: 15,648



I'm surprised no one mentions genemods.
Okay, they aren't available in anything but standard grade, which might make it a tad bit difficult to squeeze them in 1 point of essence, depending on what kind of other ware you're packing, but still, genetic optimization and daredrenaline are the only way to augment drain attributes besides logic.
And their essence costs aren't that high to begin with.
So, for any non-logic-dependant mage looking for some enhancement, they're definitely worth considering.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ArkonC
post Feb 20 2008, 07:29 PM
Post #28


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 536
Joined: 25-January 08
From: Can I crash on your couch?
Member No.: 15,483



QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Feb 20 2008, 08:25 PM) *
I'm surprised no one mentions genemods.
Okay, they aren't available in anything but standard grade, which might make it a tad bit difficult to squeeze them in 1 point of essence, depending on what kind of other ware you're packing, but still, genetic optimization and daredrenaline are the only way to augment drain attributes besides logic.
And their essence costs aren't that high to begin with.
So, for any non-logic-dependant mage looking for some enhancement, they're definitely worth considering.


I can't believe I missed this, my adepts usually all get some gen opt and always get Reakt...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Feb 20 2008, 07:30 PM
Post #29


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



Semi-canon: Under tweaking the rules there is an optional rule that symbionts have 0 essence cost. That's always worth trying to talk your GM into.

I see no edition tags, so if we're talking SR3 then every character needs trauma damper, mnemonic enhancer, and enhanced articulation, no exceptions. Cybereyes are always a good choice for the mage.
For SR4, it's pretty much been said. Cybereyes, Cerebral Booster for logic traditions, a level of synaptic accelerator is great for some initiative boost that you can actually sneak through a ward. Pain Editor is a good one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Feb 20 2008, 08:05 PM
Post #30


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



QUOTE (Feshy @ Feb 21 2008, 02:41 AM) *
Of course, I think the basic premise you are going for with the hands is flawed -- I don't think you'd get a bonus to firing pistols with only a cyber hand instead of a cyber arm. Gripping the pistol, sure -- but not aiming and firing it.


That's true.

QUOTE (Augmentation pg. 45)
Cyberlimb optimization modifications are only available to full arm and leg cyberlimbs, and must be chosen when the cyber-limb is purchased.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Feb 20 2008, 08:12 PM
Post #31


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



QUOTE (Abbandon @ Feb 21 2008, 04:38 AM) *
I was just saying "I dont like cybermages".


Not true! You are saying you hate cybermages, and that anyone that creates or plays one is a bad roleplayer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Abbandon
post Feb 20 2008, 08:21 PM
Post #32


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,711
Joined: 15-June 06
Member No.: 8,716



That is true.....I am an asshat.....but only in this instance and only towards cyber, I said i was more lenient towards bio hehehe.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyrn
post Feb 20 2008, 08:45 PM
Post #33


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 249
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Orlando
Member No.: 815



At least asshat's as much fun to type as it to say. Though I recall a great deal of consternation on the boards many moons ago about a similar issue (I believe it was cyberadepts) with numerous folks in both camps...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Feb 20 2008, 09:27 PM
Post #34


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



QUOTE (ArkonC @ Feb 20 2008, 11:29 AM) *
I can't believe I missed this, my adepts usually all get some gen opt and always get Reakt...

...a bit pricey at 25,000 (or is it 30,000?). When you're talking that much in resources, Id be more apt to look at Enhanced Articulation (+1 to all physical and combat skills) or a Skill Group Reflex Recorder.

Of course if you are going for Genetech, the best route is taking the Genetric Heritage quality. You get one free Genetech treatment (Hint: Genetic Optimisation) which will also give you a 20% break on the cost of all Transgneic enhancements both at chargen and afterwards. Also keep in mind that Genetic Optimisation stacks with the Exceptional Attribute quality. I almost considered this in the re-engineered version of the Short One (her father after all was an eminent genetic engineer), but there were no Transgenic treatments that made sense for her which didn't push her over the 1 Essence/PP limit when combined with her Synaptic Booster 1 Bioware.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Whipstitch
post Feb 20 2008, 09:34 PM
Post #35


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,883
Joined: 16-December 06
Member No.: 10,386



Enhanced Articulation kinda got hit with the ol' nerf bat in the edition change KK. It's just Physical Skills linked to Physical Attributes. So your Enhanced Articulation helps Gymnastics (Physical Skill, Physical Attribute) but not Perception (Physical Skill, Mental Attribute) or Pistols (Combat Skill, Physical Attribute).

My personal favorite 'ware for mages are as follows: SkillWires, Cerebral Boosters, Trauma Damper, Cybereyes, Sleep Editor, Pain Editor and the Skin Pocket. I think the Skin Pocket in particular is underrated; a small Focus should easily fit in there and it's certainly something you don't want to lose in a search.

As far as the thematic issue goes, I vastly prefer the Hermetic and technology friendly paradigms over the more ecstatic traditions. I simply relate better to characters that approach things from a more regimented, practical point of view than I do with say, a Houngan, and I'm a firm supporter of cybered Awakened, both thematically and mechanically.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Feb 20 2008, 09:51 PM
Post #36


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



Genetic Heritage is a nice option, allthough it would not get much use if you only spend one point. Note that Enhanced Articulation no longer gives a bonus to combat skills! Only physical skills linked to physical attributes.

Is it acceptable to suggest options for two magic points?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Whipstitch
post Feb 20 2008, 10:07 PM
Post #37


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,883
Joined: 16-December 06
Member No.: 10,386



If I dip to 2 points of magic loss it's usually for things like Muscle Toners, Reaction Enhancers (goes well with Increase Reflexes) and SkillWires. Generally, I avoid dipping down that low at chargen however, since even a 1 or 2 background count is pretty crippling for a Magic 3 magician and taking the 6 magic required to be higher than that is rather expensive. Such a character can work fine, but at that point I'd strongly consider ditching Spell Casting altogether and concentrate on being a Conjurer/Counterspeller instead, since a lot of spirit wrangling can be done in relatively safe enviroments and all the points you save on not having to buy any spells can be put towards talents that aren't so dependent on your middling Magic attribute. Works rather nicely with Elven Conjurer/Faces in particular.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
KCKitsune
post Feb 20 2008, 10:09 PM
Post #38


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,188
Joined: 9-February 08
From: Boiling Springs
Member No.: 15,665



QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Feb 20 2008, 04:27 PM) *
...a bit pricey at 25,000 (or is it 30,000?). When you're talking that much in resources, Id be more apt to look at Enhanced Articulation (+1 to all physical and combat skills) or a Skill Group Reflex Recorder.


Enhanced Articulation doesn't give a +1 to combat skills. It only gives +1 to Physical skills.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Whipstitch
post Feb 20 2008, 10:12 PM
Post #39


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,883
Joined: 16-December 06
Member No.: 10,386



...You guys aren't even reading posts anymore; it's the third time it's been brought up now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Feb 20 2008, 10:16 PM
Post #40


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



What about a smuggling compartment for the less efficiency-inclined? Never loose that focus again.

About the two lost points: I´d start real weak magically by buying magic 4(2) and only buying Spellcasting, Counterspelling and Summoning 4, Binding 1. Then I buy a rating 2 power focus, and get used to constantly overcasting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Feb 21 2008, 12:04 AM
Post #41


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Feb 20 2008, 01:34 PM) *
Enhanced Articulation kinda got hit with the ol' nerf bat in the edition change KK. It's just Physical Skills linked to Physical Attributes. So your Enhanced Articulation helps Gymnastics (Physical Skill, Physical Attribute) but not Perception (Physical Skill, Mental Attribute) or Pistols (Combat Skill, Physical Attribute)

...oopsie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) got it mixed up with the Reflex Recorder. That works with both Physical & Combat skills.

...now 2 points for an adept, that could work, especially if she has the Type O or Genetic Heritage quality.

...yeah yeah yeah, I know what I said before...then I reworked the Short One...hey, at least I was willing to give it a try...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Teulisch
post Feb 21 2008, 12:59 AM
Post #42


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 565
Joined: 7-January 04
Member No.: 5,965



from augmentation- a rating 4 radar sensor. fairly cheap, sees the invisible, and can penetrate 20 cumulative structure. and since you can target what you can see... that makes casting through concrete as simple as casting through very reinforced glass.

and its not in any book, but the idea of awakened symbionts should be part of someones research....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Feb 21 2008, 01:16 AM
Post #43


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



...I am not sure it would work for spellcasting through walls as it is essentially not "true visual" sight. That's what Mage Sight Goggles and Fibre Optic visual systems are for.

However I do like the 'ware for the opposite reason so I can spot that invisible mage & shoot him in his radar mapped face. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowDragon8685
post Feb 21 2008, 01:41 AM
Post #44


Horror
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,322
Joined: 15-June 05
From: BumFuck, New Jersey
Member No.: 7,445



As the old saw goes, "If you paid for it with Essence, it counts for Magic."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Feb 21 2008, 01:50 AM
Post #45


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



...we don't need to give mages any more advantages over mundanes than they already have.

The price of all Manatech in my campaigns has been slashed by 75% (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DTFarstar
post Feb 21 2008, 01:51 AM
Post #46


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,269
Joined: 18-September 06
Member No.: 9,421



Has to be an optic sight aug for it to work with casting. Radar is not remotely optic in nature.

Chris
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Feb 21 2008, 01:55 AM
Post #47


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



...thanks, I knew I was right on that.

Otherwise I would be handing out area jammers to all un-awakened citizens. Hey, we could then go back to Cyberdecks and jacking into the matrix as well too.

...hmmmm...not a bad idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Feshy
post Feb 21 2008, 02:31 AM
Post #48


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 715
Joined: 4-September 05
From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?)
Member No.: 7,684



QUOTE
Cyberlimb optimization modifications are only available to full arm and leg cyberlimbs, and must be chosen when the cyber-limb is purchased.


Somehow I missed the first part of that sentence; probably because the character I was interested in using it for has full limbs. Thanks for the correction.

QUOTE
Has to be an optic sight aug for it to work with casting. Radar is not remotely optic in nature.


I always found that weird. "You may cast spells at targets clearly illuminated by wavelengths between ~10^-5m and ~4x10^-7m, if you have natural or essence-bought photon receptors in physical contact with your aura." Dropping the photon power down another 3 orders of magnitude, even with an associated increase in the number of those photons from an active radar illuminator, just isn't sufficient for magic. Even if it makes exactly as much sense as casting through optically clear barriers does.

I wonder if perhaps it's just the manner of focusing? Antennas and the like don't count as "focused" light? That'd make for a great plot hook. Some crazy techno-minded mage in his basement makes an exotic nanomaterial lens that allows him to optically focus radar waves... and goes around blasting people through walls.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Feb 21 2008, 03:32 AM
Post #49


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



It's not a matter of detecting the target; otherwise you could target someone who was shouting at you from around a corner. Magic is all about Ling of Sight, so much so that there has to be something more to it than photons moving from the target to you. It's not specifically stated in canon, but I consider LoS itself to be a link with the target. It's more than just seeing the person's image; you can do that by looking at a photograph. There's something inherently magical about having a clear line from you to the target; that's also why things that provide soft cover provide modifiers for spellcasting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Feshy
post Feb 21 2008, 03:59 AM
Post #50


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 715
Joined: 4-September 05
From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?)
Member No.: 7,684



QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Feb 20 2008, 10:32 PM) *
It's not a matter of detecting the target; otherwise you could target someone who was shouting at you from around a corner. Magic is all about Ling of Sight, so much so that there has to be something more to it than photons moving from the target to you. It's not specifically stated in canon, but I consider LoS itself to be a link with the target. It's more than just seeing the person's image; you can do that by looking at a photograph. There's something inherently magical about having a clear line from you to the target; that's also why things that provide soft cover provide modifiers for spellcasting.


Yes, but what is a "clear line of sight" if not a path through material with a low absorption at wavelengths detectable with your eyes? You can even replace your eyes with a digital receptor, and still have it count -- but only if that digital receptor is in the infrared. If that receptor is at some other wavelength (radar, just below infrared) then it doesn't count for some reason, despite being the same physical phenomenon.

Imagine a material transparent in the infrared, but opaque to normal light (e.g. the front plastic bit on your TV remote, but thicker.) By getting the infra-red photon receptors in your head you can cast through that, when normally you wouldn't. Now imagine a surface opaque to visual and infra-red, but translucent to radio waves (e.g. drywall.) Implant radio-wave receptors in your head and... you still can't cast through it. It doesn't make physical sense. The only thing that changed in the two examples was that the wavelength dropped by two orders of magnitude (close to the same drop between visual and infrared too)

My only real answer is that because most people believe windows, air, and water are clear, magic works through them. Infra-red transparent material that is opaque in the optic is rare enough not to come up, and has never (to my memory) been discussed in the fluff.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

8 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st June 2025 - 01:55 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.