I'm just posting to throw my hat in with the queers not being an issue. If you look around the world and back through history you can see sex/sexuality/identity getting treated all kinds of ways. For example in a lot of Latin America you still considered "un macho" if you are a top. Another thing to point out is that we can be all friendly and talk about identity "neighborhoods", but really we are talking about ghettos, like Warsaw ghettos. Steadily for the last 30 years in the USA being out has gotten way way way easier. But the "neighborhoods" you are talking about steam from overt oppression. The tenderloin is an SF neighborhood. It has been full of genderbent prostitutes for half a century. Because that was the only place in the city where such people could get get housing, and even there they often couldn't get legit jobs. Racial neighborhoods? Same thing. These are Ghettos created and maintained by oppression. This is why there aren't gamer neighborhoods or bicyclist neighborhoods etc. So after 50 years of activism making it less and less easy and cool to hate on queer folk, and Meta's pop up the hate just flows down hill. Without the oppression maintaining it you will see the ghettos dissolve.

I guess its just a regional thing. My brother (who is gay) left the small town we lived in becasue he was tired of being someplace that didn't accept him. He left specifically to be around others like him. And for about 5-10 years he did go full stream into the "gay culture" until he meet a nice guy and they settled in the suburbs. Again this from an Amerocentric veiw, specifically Massucusets. Both of us moved to Boston for difrent reasons.


I would think that they would be difrent becasue the wearer was diffrent. I guess for RAW it doesn't realy matter.

not necessarily true. it's central to who you are nowadays, in most of the first world. if you had been born in Sparta around the time a bunch of its citizens died for FREEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM, the question of whether or not you should have sex with men wouldn't have occurred to you--you'd have done it and never thought twice about it. if you'd been born in Athens around the same time, you would likely also have spent a lot of time flirting with young boys. actually having sex with a young boy would cause no more stir than a governor having sex with a prostitute today--which is to say, everybody knows that everybody does it, but there's always a big hullabaloo whenever somebody actually gets caught doing it.

I'm looking for RAW material for a drag queen character. As for making them different, my group is pretty heavy into roleplaying quirky characters. We have to have a good reason for being Shadowrunners rather than making money some legitimate and safer way. Like I've said it's pretty gritty. There is a requirement of a detailed background for us, our family, our contacts, where we live and why we are Shadowrunners. Our games have a very heavy on the rich/poor, human/meta, mundane/magic, loss of humanity type stuff. To get into a AAA rated area takes a SIN rating 5 or better. Most of the people in the Barrens never travel more than 4 miles from the place they are born their entire life. Even those with SINs have a 2-3 year waiting period to get a job that is good enough to afford to move into even a B rated block.


And this is the first gay character I've written for SR and I figured there had to be some already generated background material to work with in the source books. Makes it easier on me.

First of all, assuming I'm heterosexual, it doesn't matter what type of girl I prefer. Assuming I'm heterosexual, I'm not going to be in the same dating pool as homosexuals, and so I'm probably not going to go to a lesbian bar to pick up chicks. I'm going to go to straight bars, and like having areas in my city where several of these bars are clumped together so I'm not tromping all over town getting between them.

And yes, I DO form groups with like-minded people. It's not exactly a bigot-thing, it's common courtesy. I don't have any non-gamers in my gaming group, I don't force "norms" to sit through my Star Trek marathons, etc. So these activities have a heavy influence on the "scenes" involved. If you hang out with my gaming buddies, there's NO getting around the fact that we're gamers. This is how subcultures form, and like it or not, homosexuality has produced a very definite subculture. That's not to say all homosexuals choose to take part in it, but many do. It's pretty insulting to say "well, in the future, these people won't be proud of who they are" or "they'll focus more on other things."

And I find your equation of gay businesses to gay people needing different cups, bottles, etc. really offensive. I'm sure you think you're being very open-minded, and more enlightened than us Americans, but you're not only implying that I'm a homophobe, you're also flippantly dismissing a lifestyle as irrelevant. No, Hermit, that's not what the matrix is for. Do you not go to bookstores or libraries because you have an internet connection? I don't know how things work in your world, but in my world, people like face-to-face interaction, and occasionally leave the house. Sometimes they like to go places they enjoy being, and meeting similar-minded people. Maybe that's a gay bookstore. Maybe it's a gay-friendly cafe or clothing store. But it's probably nice to have places you can go, and hand money to a clerk in exchange for goods, and not have them look at you like they're afraid they have AIDS now. And you're right, maybe Germany's completely free of prejudices, and this is just a problem with American society, but that's the society that Seattle's going to be descended from.

And as for fear of meta's eliminating homophobia, I don't buy it. People don't have to pick just one way to be stupid. I don't think the Klan ever said "You know what? Let's not care that this guy's a liberal. Let's fixate on the fact that he's Jewish." Bigots just let their two prejudices go hand in hand. So I don't think someone would be "more worried" about the fact that someone's a troll than that they're a drag queen. They're going to be worried about the troll drag queen. And yes, I realize that "trog queen" is an appropriate play on words to describe this potential subculture. Now if we can just get some stats on what percentage of the general population dress in drag, and multiply it by the percentage that are trolls, we'll be in business.

What about a red light district, then? They aren't formed of a certain ethnic group or creed, though they do tend to be lower class. They aren't there because of discrimination. How about art districts? How about industrial parks? A lot of times the reason things are built in close proximity is because the other places nearby are like that. So someone wants to build a gay bar? where are they going to build it? Likely in a place that is known for being a gay district. And when the next person wants to build a gay bar, he'll probably think the same thing. So it perpetuates. I'd imagine the gay residents of the areas are proud of their home. I know someone in Australia, and apparently they are very proud of their heritage, even though their forefathers were forced to live there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think that even without oppression as such, a lot of gay people will want to live in gay neighborhoods. So Capitol Hill (for example) could still be mostly gay. It's just more fun -- a gay bar, nightclub, restaurant or what have you will have better business where a lot of nearby people are gay, and the presence of these places will be a gay magnet, so there's a feedback loop kind of.

Of course in Capitol Hill the rents are getting outrageous, and not "outrageous" in a 2m tall drag queen kind of way, and also I could see multiple cycles of gentrification/assimilation as hipsters move in to the "cool neighborhood" and then make it all boring and homogenous and the coolest place is basically Urban Outfitters (which is kind of cool but no chain store should be the coolest place around).

Still don't understand why you're looking for official guidelines on playing a gay character.

There's only been a single character in any of the SR novels, that I know of - Talon [can't remember the books, sorry]..
..But maybe that'd give you some help.


And really, it's not something that any RPG really gets into, because of the problems it'd cause [same as most RPGs won't do much about religion, or skin colour - RPG-ers get enough trouble over satanism, etc already].


Just watch a couple of movies involving drag queens, or listen to Eddie Izzard, and use that as material.


And, although I laud your 'research', the sexuality of a character should not be something that you have to ask someone else about - if you really can't work out that being a drag queen [which actually has nothing to do with sexual orientation, ask anyone who does panto about that] isn't really going to make any difference to the character, then maybe you should just give up..
..Because being gay doesn't make any other differences to the way you are, except that you love someone of the same sex [and get beaten up if some idiot thinks you fit his image of being gay].


That of course does not take into account the people who come out about their sexuality late in life, those who believe they were born into the wrong sex bodies or those who indulge in same sex partners, but don't class it as being gay.


Looking at some of the comments here, it seems that many people don't actually know anything about gay people..
..Your gay people seem to be outcasts, that are herded into ghettos and only interact with other gay people.

SanFran, I believe, has a reputation for being quite gay friendly [as does Brighton, in the UK] - yet is not a ghetto, or only populated by gay people

London, which is quite an up-and-coming city in the world, has several gay bars, right in the middle of the city - right where straight people from all over the world go !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Obviously, there are gay people in every walk of life, in every street and in every demographic - so just treat a gay character [and again, drag queens don't have to be gay - unless you insist that in every carnival, everyone there is gay ??] like any other character [and I'm not trying to downplay that gay people are individuals in their right, or that you shouldn't do what you're trying to do and stretch the boundaries of your game]..
..Unless you treat every character, of every skin colour differently ??

Yeah, I've been waiting for the perfect oppurtunity to throw the macho players into "The Leather Devil's". Nothing like a good ass-pounding by a biker troll to get the blood flowing.

there's a difference between having pride in oneself and having a subculture. there's nothing insulting at all in saying that the world will become so accepting of alternative lifestyles that there won't be any reason for people who choose that lifestyle to segregate themselves. i like having sex with petite brunettes, and so do other people. but we haven't formed our own subculture, and we don't all live in the same part of town. if i outed myself as a guy who has sex with petite brunettes, people wouldn't look askance of me for my sexual proclivities, they'd look askance of me for blaring in everyone's ear.

Uhm ... yeah ... nothing like a bunch of self-important, arrogant people telling everyone of a certain skin colour, sexual orientation or nationality how to be a 'true' Black, Homosexual or American ... and why should it be rude to say "in the future, things might change and you will actually get that accepance you crave for so loudly?


You really got me all figured out, man. Yes, I do wonder how, exactly, gay people would, in a society where they are accepted the same way people of colour or with blonde hair are accepted, would need special stores to buy everyday stuff for. where exactly do I imply you being a homophobe? I am just wondering about something that makes no sense to me.


I support my local gaming shop becuase I and the owner go way back, and occasionally, while prowling my local shopping street, I do drop by a large book store, but other than that, yes, I do buy most of my books online.


AIDS is not much of an issue anymore, at least here, to the point where the government feels the need to air a huge ad campaign with an "AIDS - it can still kill you, y'know?" theme. Also, as two state governors and the head of a major party are openly gay (one having won Berlin on a - no kidding - "gay and happy about that" ticket), as well as a number of media people being open about homosexual preferences, yes, I DO think Germany is much more tolerant of homosexuals than the US, where senators who find themselves outed usually step back and withdraw into privacy. I'm not saying all is perfect over here, by far not, but in that respect, yeah, Germany is more tolerant than the states (in all aspects including sex, actually). So sue me if that hurts your self-esteem. Won't make this any less true.

But even Americans can change in 60 years, can't they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Of course they are. they form because people don't want that kjind of business near them, and restricting them to a certain part of the city is an old, proven and effective way to keep brothels out of your neighbourhood. Some are maintained for tradition or as tourist destinatuions nowadays, but that's where they come from.


QFT

let me present a concept that is a lot more likely than what i think a lot of people are picturing. it's not that there isn't any LGBT subculture--it's that there's an LGBT subculture and a lesbian subculture and a gay subculture and a bi subculture and a transvestite subculture and a counterculture for people who are gay but don't like the gay subculture and a subculture who thinks it should be LGBTQ and so on and so on and so on. and that's all mixed in with the subculture who thinks that marriage is a sacred vow that should never be broken, the subculture that thinks swinging is just fine, the subculture that thinks that wives should never make eye contact with their husbands, the subculture where everyone who is over 30 has five ex-spouses, the subculture for complete abstainers (we call 'em stainers for short!) and so on. it's not that nobody cares, it's that everyone cares, and the cacaphony just mixes into a roar that is ultimately meaningless.

3278, a guy who posts at a place called Bulldrek posted this in a thread about locations in Seattle, by some guy named Paul. I believe this was published in TSS at one point or another.

Hope this helps.

If gay gets that accepted I wonder what the next 'fringe sexuality struggling for acceptance' will be?

Necrophilia?
Furries?
Bestiality?
Pedos (with Michael Jackson as a totem?)
Dragonfuckers
AI-philes
hmm

excuse me... excuse me dragonfucker! do you need assistance!

This is very much like my opinion when I was a child about Mother's day. I said "Hey mum, why is there a mother's day and a father's day? Why isn't there a kids day."

And I'll say to you what she said to me. "Honey, you get the other three hundred and sixty four days of the year."

AFAICT, by 2070 SR Seattle, like race, gender/gender preference segregation/discrimination has been wiped out by a combination of metahuman issues and desensitization. I mean, we've got Orksploitation, ork and elf posers and a bunch of things that aren't even (meta)human anymore. Tack this on to the extreme flexibility offered by biosculpting, simsense and BTLs, and I think you'll find it VERY hard to have any sort of districting when for the most part, people just don't care beyond their own particular kinks and preferences. You'll still have particular establishments and organizations catering to particular kinks, but without external opposition to rally against (and consequently, without establishments AVOIDING setting up shop in your 'area') it will be extraordinarily difficult to maintain any sort of meaningfully concentrated district.

Not looking for guidelines, just flavor text from some of the source materials. Trust me I've seen everything Eddie Izzard has done and I will probably bust out with "Do you have a flag?" at least once in game. And in my neck of the woods, drag queens are gay. Straight men in dresses are just cross dressers or transvestites. (Eddie Izzard is a transvestite by the way he even goes off on a big diatribe in one of his sketches). As for inspiration I'm going more for Harvey Firestien in Torchsong Trilogy. I'm going for a full on lounge act singing drag queen performer. While some actors wait on tables or wash cars until they get their big break she is a shadowrunner. It pays the bills and not to many places will hire her anyways without cutting into her REAL aspirations. Besides its oh so dramatic and the people are so much more interesting.

And in our game, yes every character is treated differently by the color of there skin. If your a gringo and you walk into the barrio, your going to be hassled by the gangs until you leave. The only places that are immune to that are the A-AAA areas of Seattle; the "civilized places". If your a Meta don't even think about trying to walk into any of the Japanese corp properties.

In short I was looking for a few pointers (thanks to the people who pointed out gangs, areas and contacts) and I got them. I wasn't intending for this to get do blown out of proportion. I just wanted some background and I don't have all the books yet.

You guys are all totally disregarding that while the world has "desensitized" itself to such prejudices, there has ALSO been a resurgence in conservatism and religious dogmatism. You think that goblinization came and then the fundies went "Oh, well, we've got this new thing to focus our zealous hatred on. I guess we were just wrong about fags and abortions, they're all god's creatures too." Uh... hell no. Just because the biggest groups of fundamentalists (the humanis/A40k/etc.) focus their public front and most of their operations on metarace descrimination, I'm willing to bet that their majority is fairly consensual and carrying the "god hates fags" stick. It's not just humanis, either, the muslim fundamentalists stirred up the masses and punted them into europe. The sexual descrimination in the middle-east didn't go away either.

So no, being homosexual isn't like choosing whether you want to have sugar and cream in your coffee. Because a guy isn't going to beat you into the gutter for that personal preference.

What? Don't you remember the Damien Knight/Dunkelzahn Slashfic that some guy posted up here a yeqar or so ago?

yes, but a guy might also beat you into the gutter for having pointy ears, or tusks, or using magic, or worshipping the wrong god, or for not being gay, or for being a male, or for not recycling, or for shopping in the Renraku Arcology mall on the wrong Christmas.

Or just because.

Okly, Brodda..
..Sorry for the confusion - flavour text for character background is good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just be aware that not all people who wear womens clothes for work are gay - we in the UK have a long tradition of men dressing as women on stage [pantomime] and I know Japan has something similar.

Have you checked out Priscilla, Queen of the desert ??

It sounds like the character is similar to Priss [from Bubblegum Crisis] - aspiring songster, who does missions to earn some money.


Best of luck with the character (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I dunno, shadowrunners going for the spotlight always sounds like suicide to me ... shadowruns are terrorism. You're not engaging in acts of terror and then, a few years down the line, emerge as a pop star(let). People will recognise you. People will find you and make you pay for what you've done. Your showbusiness-y career will be pretty damn short.

i don't really expect the first world's current fascination with terrorism to survive the awakening, much less the crash, bug city, denver, crash 2.0, etcetera. 'sides, there's a whole media myth built up around shadowrunning. sorta like being a 'gangsta' today.