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b1ffov3rfl0w
post Mar 13 2008, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE (swirler @ Mar 13 2008, 10:31 AM) *
sure they wouldn't use slang from 20 years before, but why would they use slang from 70+ years before, is my point, I guess
yeah chummer felt kinda stilted before but after you read enough sourcebooks and novels they all just kinda flow
or atleast they did for me
hell even the FPS community picked up on frag, of course thats for killing, but if you get fragged, you are fragged IMO
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)


Well, some slang sticks around. "Fuck" has been around for centuries, for example. Supposedly kestrels were once called "windfuckers" and nobody thought this was hilariously rude. The Mitsubishi Windfucker is equipped with a Clearsight 3 Autosoft. Windfucker is going to be the name of an airborne drone, an Eagle shaman, or a band.

"Frag" is military slang from the Vietnam war, I think, and refers specifically to intentional friendly fire (I guess you could call it) using a fragmentation grenade. Easier to get away with than shooting, because there's not really a way to do a ballistics test on grenade shrapnel, and you could plausibly have thrown yours somewhere else. Frag, the fragging fragger is fragged because you forgot to defrag the fragging memory.

"Drek" is one I like, because Yiddish words make me think of Mad Magazine. Oy vey, omae, you're so full of drek you could plotz. Blech.
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Synner667
post Mar 13 2008, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Mar 13 2008, 08:24 PM) *
Let me add

Slower healing times...

Double Body per day... means that grievous wounds take a couple days and you're back to good as new.

I liked how a Deadly wound had a longer healing phase than a serious wound.

30 days base for a deadly wound... and then you had a serious... it took a while to patch up... which just made more sense to me.



Things like that are the "streamlining" [dumbing down] that SR has gone through to give make it more appealing to a wider audience - many players want to wade into gunfights, take damage, and then be up and about in days..
..Ignoring the semi-realistic healing rules that mean being out of action for a long time [and the usual result of being in a gunfight].
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cryptoknight
post Mar 13 2008, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Synner667 @ Mar 13 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Things like that are the "streamlining" [dumbing down] that SR has gone through to give make it more appealing to a wider audience - many players want to wade into gunfights, take damage, and then be up and about in days..
..Ignoring the semi-realistic healing rules that mean being out of action for a long time [and the usual result of being in a gunfight].


Exactly... I could take a deadly wound (say have both my legs blown off) and the new rules basically mean I regrow them back on in less than a week.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 13 2008, 10:16 PM
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if not using the "advanced" wound-rules from arsenal . .
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mfb
post Mar 13 2008, 10:20 PM
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well, to be fair, the SR3 healing rules weren't exactly the pinnacle of gritty realism either. first aid could knock your wounds down by a full level, and if you threw enough money at it, you could get the rest healed up ridiculously quickly. i had an adept who had a bad habit of taking S+3 in almost every fight he got in. the first time it happened, we were on a timetable, so we did all the healing rolls. he paid extra for beta-grade care and ended up healing 9 boxes of damage in some thing like 34 hours.
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Synner667
post Mar 13 2008, 10:27 PM
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Note, I said "semi-realistic" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And your example involves someone who paid over the odds for his care = should get better healing.


It's always a fine balance between taking time to heal damage, and being fun for players
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Chrysalis
post Mar 13 2008, 10:39 PM
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Fuck v.

[ Spoiler ]


Fuckwind

[ Spoiler ]


Frag

[ Spoiler ]


Drek

[ Spoiler ]


Quoted from OED.
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Particle_Beam
post Mar 13 2008, 10:57 PM
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Ritual spellcasting changed a little bit. Now, you can throw fireballs and other indirect combat spells (formerly categorized as elemental manipulations) from the other end of the world... Of course, one does wonder where the fireball might actually originate (is it by the casters, the ritual spotter?).
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b1ffov3rfl0w
post Mar 13 2008, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Mar 13 2008, 04:42 PM) *
Exactly... I could take a deadly wound (say have both my legs blown off) and the new rules basically mean I regrow them back on in less than a week.


I don't think the new rules really have a provision for having your legs blown off. But you're right, they're totally unrealistic otherwise. State-of-the-art medical care in 2070, sure, but just healing that fast on your own is crazy.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 13 2008, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Mar 13 2008, 11:57 PM) *
Ritual spellcasting changed a little bit. Now, you can throw fireballs and other indirect combat spells (formerly categorized as elemental manipulations) from the other end of the world... Of course, one does wonder where the fireball might actually originate (is it by the casters, the ritual spotter?).

whu? what?
since when?
the only thing remotely connected to that is the ability to cast spells through a network of fiberoptic sensors for corp-mages . . there was talk about the spell if being an elemental effect spell originating by the mage and going in a straight line to the trget, having to go through walls and everything in between to reach their target destination . . so a fireball would go boom in the same room as the mage, but stunball would drop the targeted group without any trouble, aside from the hightened target number coming from casting through the network in the first place . .
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BlueMax
post Mar 14 2008, 12:26 AM
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The slang is missed. We use it at our table still. Hacker bothers me to no end. Its 'Linkers for me baby. Link Cowboys.

However, I love the changing story.
Understand that I started with just the first ed hardback, so my world formation had a lot of fuzzyness. And when I got my Hardback first edition, I was a fragging great deal younger and more impressionable.
This is all POV dag nabit, so don't think I am saying its fact.

Here goes anyway

Then
Post apocalyptic world: Masses dead from waves of VITAS, Race riots, Mass terrorism, Dragon anger and corp wars. Displaced masses from the pie slicing of North America.
Now
Its like 1999, countries that you got the impression died out have the same political power, culture and presence they did in 1999. Fifty years to rebuild, so I ain't complaining.

Then
Corp Wars:
Governments were patsies. You kept them around so that someone handled the garbage and water collectively, but they had no power.
Now:
Limited Government revival. People actually mention Governments with respect. A feeling there are Civil Services again.

Then
NAN Power: The NAN was hot from kicking hoop and it was in charge.
Now:
No NAN characters in the base books. NAN schman. Probably the only governments to lose power.

Then
Goblinization: Troll Characters had gone through goblinization and were part of a young culture.
Now
Pasta... errr Or'zet. Multi generational trolls and orks.

Rules:
Then
Metahuman oddity:
It took an A man, think about it! For those new to the game, thats about 150BP(roughly guys, roughly)! Just to be Meta.
Now:
The general populations are marginally more meta but players, thats another story.

I missed out on SURGE but I plan on reading about it.
What a wonderful trip its been so far.
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b1ffov3rfl0w
post Mar 14 2008, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE (BlueMax @ Mar 13 2008, 07:26 PM) *
Then
NAN Power: The NAN was hot from kicking hoop and it was in charge.
Now:
No NAN characters in the base books. NAN schman. Probably the only governments to lose power.


I think the Bounty Hunter is a native Sioux speaker or something. But yeah. Also: aside from the one couatly-lookin logo repeated throughout the book, there's hardly Mesoamerican-style art in the BBB.
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mfb
post Mar 14 2008, 02:45 AM
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QUOTE (BlueMax)
I missed out on SURGE but I plan on reading about it.

no! save yourself! it's too late for me, but you can still live a happy, fulfilling life if you don't read about SURGE!
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 14 2008, 02:50 AM
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Then.

Now.

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hobgoblin
post Mar 14 2008, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (b1ffov3rfl0w @ Mar 13 2008, 11:58 PM) *
I don't think the new rules really have a provision for having your legs blown off. But you're right, they're totally unrealistic otherwise. State-of-the-art medical care in 2070, sure, but just healing that fast on your own is crazy.


true that, SR3 had a optional table to roll on for D wounds to see if any vital part of ones anatomy was missing.

SR4 forgoes that unless one goes for the advanced rules in augmentation, and imo thats a good thing.

one do not really want a new player have his character sit out a month or more just because he had a bad damage staging roll at the first session. at that point he could just as well have had his character dive on a grenade and started rolling a new one.
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hobgoblin
post Mar 14 2008, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Mar 14 2008, 03:50 AM) *


funny thing, i like em both.

the old one have a nice nostalgia to it, but the new one kinda fit the new, more modern game (in tech level of the world as much as anything else).
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Adarael
post Mar 14 2008, 05:26 AM
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Re: nukes not working.

Nowhere, anywhere, in any source book or official material is it even implied that nuclear power does not work like it's supposed to. In fact, there are more nuke plants churning out more power than the in current world by a large amount. The nuclear accidents and failures of shadowrun are easily attributable to a number of outside influences, including:
-Direct magical interference, be it GDs or IEs or spirits or whatever;
-Shadowrun type operations.
-Mirage.
-Conspiracies.

The idea that nuke power doesn't work normally in the 6th world was inferred by AH as an explanation for the oddities surrounding warheads and power plants. It's not official. While I respect AH's dedication to explaining everything and collating massive amounts of SR data, I disagree with him on this point, and I get kind of teeth-gnashy when people imply that It's Just A Fact.
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FrankTrollman
post Mar 14 2008, 09:41 AM
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Ritual Sorcery used to be intimately connected with Grounding. That is, all physical spells traveled through the astral plane and then grounded into the target. In order to cast a spell on a physical target you needed something to ground through, and you could use your own physical line of sight as a ground (which was the standard way to do it). Ritual Sorcery was centered around using sympathy between objects to create a ground in another place.

In 4th edition, grounding is a thing of the past. Normal physical spells start, travel, and finish on the physical plane. They do not ever appear on or travel through the astral plane. Further, ritual spellcasting through links is no longer the default, it's a fraggin metamagic. The number of people who can actually cast a spell through a lock of hair has dwindled from "damn near everyone who can cast a spell at all" to "a tiny select group of magical assassins." Now how exactly it is that a fireball gets to the target in SR4's Ritual Schema is somewhat up in the air. Fireballs still never travel through the astral plane, they just appear at the target when cast with ritual spellcasting. No explanation.

In previous editions the movement of ritual spells through the astral was explicit. So explicit that you could actually attack them once on their way in - essentially a ritual spell was like a fast ball and if you happened to be standing there with a magical baseball bat you could potentially hit it away. In SR4 the ritual spell apparently goes through a metaplanar shortcut, and homes in on something that an astral spotter can assense (or something tied to a ritual link if you have that metamagic technique).

How an Astral Spotter works in SR4 is pretty puzzling. The spotter literally can't cast the spell or participate in casting the spell because he's on the wrong plane of existence to manipulate any of the mana that is being used. The caster(s) manipulate mana on the physical plane and the physical target has physical mana manipulated around him to cause his ass to explode in physical fire. No astral mana is used, but an astral spotter watching the whole thing is a key component of any group that doesn't have a linker on staff (and that metamagic is going to be highly controlled on the grounds that it allows people to murder pretty much anyone and has no other real use).

-Frank
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Stahlseele
post Mar 14 2008, 09:44 AM
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'scuse me but:
if it's coming from AH, that more or less makes it canon for OUR group . . 'cause frankly? he makes more sense than the book-canon most of the time . .
and i did not know about that coming from AH untill now either O.o
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Particle_Beam
post Mar 14 2008, 09:51 AM
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@FrankTrollman: Wait, ritual spellcasting with a material link (hairs, fingers, blood for people or bricks for buildings) doesn't require a metamagic technique, does it?
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 14 2008, 12:23 PM
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That's right; it's sympathetic/symbolic links that require a metamagic. Material links are available to anyone with Ritual Spellcasting (which frankly is fewer and fewer people these days; in SR3 and previous editions ritual magic and spellcasting were the same skill).

The thing is, there no longer seems to be any use for either kind of linking other than lowering the boom on someone. Astral tracking, for example, no longer exists, or at least I can't seem to find it anymore. Ritual magic no longer allows you to sustain a spell for several hours for free. Detection spells work by granting abilities to their subjects, so you can't use them to spy in targets either. The only use for ritual magic these days, and by extension the Sympathetic Linking metamagic, is remote-control murder, so it seems to me that the practice ought to be far more distrusted and regulated.
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Fuchs
post Mar 14 2008, 12:27 PM
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"Sure we used ritual magic to drop a fireball on that bunch of runners, but that was just done so we could track them by the smoke that this caused. Honest. We tried to take them alive."
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Mar 14 2008, 06:29 PM
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Shaman: I'd like to increase my lodge from rating 5 to rating 6.
GM: OK, 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for +1 rating. No problem.

Hermetic: I'd like to increase my library from rating 5 to rating 6.
GM: OK, one hundred billion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ...times 3 because the libraries for spellcasting, spell design, and summoning are seperately maintained, oh, +markup because of the higher availability rating. I guess you can sell your old, worthless, libraries for 30% base cost.


Hmm..you know - I think this was definitely one of SR4's BEST fixes.
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Kyoto Kid
post Mar 14 2008, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (Adarael)
Re: nukes not working.

Nowhere, anywhere, in any source book or official material is it even implied that nuclear power does not work like it's supposed to. In fact, there are more nuke plants churning out more power than the in current world by a large amount. The nuclear accidents and failures of shadowrun are easily attributable to a number of outside influences, including:
-Direct magical interference, be it GDs or IEs or spirits or whatever;
-Shadowrun type operations.
-Mirage.
-Conspiracies.

The idea that nuke power doesn't work normally in the 6th world was inferred by AH as an explanation for the oddities surrounding warheads and power plants. It's not official. While I respect AH's dedication to explaining everything and collating massive amounts of SR data, I disagree with him on this point, and I get kind of teeth-gnashy when people imply that It's Just A Fact..

...I had nukes working in my RiS campaign. Had a Toxic Shamanic cult called the "Cleansing Light" which followed the "Way of the Atom". (need a glowing emoticon)
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hobgoblin
post Mar 14 2008, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Mar 14 2008, 08:17 PM) *
...I had nukes working in my RiS campaign. Had a Toxic Shamanic cult called the "Cleansing Light" which followed the "Way of the Atom". (need a glowing emoticon)


are you sure you quoted the right post there? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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