 Here be dragons, Runners Companion Preview |
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 Apr 3 2008, 12:25 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 472 Joined: 14-June 07 Member No.: 11,909  |
I think the joke's really just on the developers. We ridiculize them for being always late with publishing stuff, and we also simultaneously take into consideration that this might be real because of their bad grammatics and many typos...
A 1st April joke that didn't go well for the SR 4-guys, sadly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) |
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Apr 3 2008, 12:32 AM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 10-February 08 From: Roseville, California Member No.: 15,668 |
QUOTE (raverbane @ Apr 2 2008, 04:40 PM)  The reason I am hoping so hard for this to be a joke is the fact it is so poorly written and so full of typos and grammerical errors. Sweet, sweet irony. |
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Apr 3 2008, 12:33 AM
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#53
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Apr 2 2008, 05:25 PM) I think the joke's really just on the developers. We ridiculize them for being always late with publishing stuff, and we also simultaneously take into consideration that this might be real because of their bad grammatics and many typos... A 1st April joke that didn't go well for the SR 4-guys, sadly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ...yeah, but look at the date and time of the posting... QUOTE This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 2nd, 2008 at 18:00:25 ...if so, someone needs to reset their computer's "Time and Date" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Apr 3 2008, 12:53 AM
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#54
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Apr 2 2008, 08:24 PM) ...and if anyone insists on playing a dragon I will politely remind them that there has been a sudden quantum leap in fully autonomous precision targeted rapid fire Thor Strike capability ushering in the era of TungstenStorm™ technology ...brought to you by the forward thinking folks at Aeon Technologies). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) well, at least it's not a cow =P anyways, just because it's a day late doesn't mean it's not a joke. honestly, all the signs point to this being a joke. the companion is at the very least behind unwired and whatever the next location book is, and maybe a few others as well =S besides, rules for dragons as PCs should *clearly* be in running wild. c'mon guys, get with the program! =P |
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Apr 3 2008, 12:57 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
QUOTE (Jaid @ Apr 2 2008, 07:53 PM) well, at least it's not a cow =P I so wish it were a COW! I would play Bessy the Hellcow in an instant!! More Cowbell!! |
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Apr 3 2008, 01:02 AM
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#56
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
Don't the rules seem really... balanced for a joke? It's like they spent a lot of time making sure that dragons would be cool, but far from overpowered, by giving them such an enormous BP cost. I'd expect that in a joke, they'd be really ultra broken and horrible, and it would be really obvious. If it's a joke, it's delivered in an absolutely serious deadpan way... And it would be the first April 2nd April Fools joke I've ever heard of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)
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Apr 3 2008, 01:10 AM
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#57
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
QUOTE (raverbane @ Apr 2 2008, 08:57 PM) I so wish it were a COW! I would play Bessy the Hellcow in an instant!! More Cowbell!! i was referring to the tungstenstorm actually... you know... orbital bovine bombardment? i suppose they could be using cows made of tungsten, but i have my doubts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Apr 3 2008, 01:50 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 259 Joined: 2-September 07 From: In the AGS, underwater Member No.: 13,049 |
In my games, certain cows have the innate spell (Levitation(Self)) power and fly around all the time. Cows falling on characters aren't an arbitrary punishmend for players stealing my snacks but the mere result of mana static in the lower atmosphere causing bovine spell disruption (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
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Apr 3 2008, 01:51 AM
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#59
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
QUOTE (Jaid) i was referring to the tungstenstorm actually... you know... orbital bovine bombardment? i suppose they could be using cows made of tungsten, but i have my doubts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ...actually we experimented with tungsten bone laced cows but it only made for a minor improvement in the resultant impact. Furthermore Aeon R&D has concluded employing standard tungsten rods still has an economic advantage over laced bovines at this juncture. However, Project BS-X (BovineStorm™) is still undergoing testing as I write. Aeon Labs It's not magic, just superior technology. |
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Apr 3 2008, 01:53 AM
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#60
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
QUOTE (raverbane @ Apr 3 2008, 02:57 AM) I so wish it were a COW! I would play Bessy the Hellcow in an instant!! More Cowbell!! well, there is allways this: http://starcraft2.com/features/terran/taurenmarine.xml |
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Apr 3 2008, 02:04 AM
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#61
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...mmmm cows with guns...
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Apr 3 2008, 02:57 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
QUOTE (raverbane @ Apr 2 2008, 06:40 PM) Ok, let me say that I really hope this is some kind of late April's Fool joke. It would make sense it is late. It is coming from a game publisher we all know they never do anything on time. The reason I am hoping so hard for this to be a joke is the fact it is so poorly written and so full of typos and grammerical errors. But, given the plethora of poor grammer in Arsenal, I just don't know. I will post a few examples. "Evidently a dragon is exempt from Piloting Tests to move about normally," Evidently? Why is that disclaimer even there in a non-fluff rule sentence? "Every time a dragon loses Essence to implantation he must make a Willpower + Magic Test with a Threshold of 3. If he fails he automatically gains a 10 point Mental Negative Quality." Every dragon has a combined base Willpower + Magic of 11. Just raise either one more point and they can beat this with just buying successes. "Fortunately the development of AR has made it easier than ever to interface with technology—though this requires specialized nanotrodes custom-made and configured to the draconic brain which are both expensive and difficult to acquire on open market (Cost: 50,000Y and Availability 20) but might be possible to procure from certain corporations in return for services rendered." Then the very next paragraph on the next page contradicts this!! "Dragons in their natural form have some difficulty using trode-nets, since they must be custom-designed for them, costing 20 times the normal amount." "All cyber, bio, nano and geneware augmentations for dragons must be custom-designed, of course, making them automatically the equivalent of deltaware with an additional cost multiplier of 4 (for a total multiplier of 12 times the normal cost)." Last time I checked, deltaware costs x10. And 4+10 doesnt equal 12. "kept to dragonkind. which allows higher level" Need to capitalize the 'W' in which and the black box isn't the correct size for the paragraph. And.... "Metahuman Form While unable to shift into a human form at will as great dragons do, dracoforms are capable of using magic to assume metahuman (and other) forms, but it is not an innate ability for them, meaning that the dragon must possess the Shapechange spell and must be sustain and maintain it for it to be persistent." If this isnt a joke (heaven forbid) I guess that settles the on again / off again arguement about whether or not metahumans are critters for the sake of Shapechange. But.... "Shapechange transforms a voluntary subject into a normal (non-paranormal) critter, though the subject retains human consciousness. The subject can only assume the form of a critter whose base Body rating is 2 points greater or less than her own." Given the the base body for dragons ranges from 9-12, I guess dragons won't be using thier Shapechange spell to become humans or elves. |
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Apr 3 2008, 02:59 AM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,010 |
QUOTE (raverbane @ Apr 2 2008, 09:57 PM) And.... "Metahuman Form While unable to shift into a human form at will as great dragons do, dracoforms are capable of using magic to assume metahuman (and other) forms, but it is not an innate ability for them, meaning that the dragon must possess the Shapechange spell and must be sustain and maintain it for it to be persistent." If this isnt a joke (heaven forbid) I guess that settles the on again / off again on whether or not metahumans are critters for the sake of Shapechange. But.... "Shapechange transforms a voluntary subject into a normal (non-paranormal) critter, though the subject retains human consciousness. The subject can only assume the form of a critter whose base Body rating is 2 points greater or less than her own." Given the the base body for dragons ranges from 9-12, I guess dragons won't be using thier Shapechange spell to become humans or elves. The simple solution is the use the rules in Street Magic to create a custom spell that gives you the appearance of any metahuman race, I would think. |
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Apr 3 2008, 03:12 AM
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#64
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Apr 2 2008, 07:04 PM) ...mmmm cows with guns... Why am I thinking of Dana Lyons? Oh, yeah, that's why. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Apr 3 2008, 03:32 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 2 2008, 08:02 PM) Don't the rules seem really... balanced for a joke? It's like they spent a lot of time making sure that dragons would be cool, but far from overpowered, by giving them such an enormous BP cost. I'd expect that in a joke, they'd be really ultra broken and horrible, and it would be really obvious. If it's a joke, it's delivered in an absolutely serious deadpan way... And it would be the first April 2nd April Fools joke I've ever heard of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) Why do they require balancing? They are dragons! They are balanced in this world by very well connected organizations out to kill them, opportunists dying to make a mil on all the reagents their bodies provide, and by rarity. I am not saying it is not possible for a PC to play one, but I don't see how you could logically fit one into a standard campaign. GM: "LS shows up" Player: "I eat them" This is how dragons should be. What are the legal ramifications for a dragon? It was always my impression that they did whatever the f*ck they wanted, and were only held in check by other dragons. How are you supposed to work in Dragon social hierarchy and rituals that weren't even detailed to entirety in the Dragons of the Sixth World sourcebook? Seriously, I want to know. To hell with power balance, I want a good reason why this trusted team of companions doesn't butcher the sorry ass wurm as soon as he turns his back (thus promptly retiring). Also, what can an AI PC bring to the table? Sure they can do things with code that even TMs have a hard time grasping, but does this make the game more enjoyable? Do they just have an obscene hacking pool, cause I can see some pretty obscene figures from a Hacker Adept. What reason is there to risk entire armys of corporate And while we are on the subject of turning virtually all powerful NPC types into PCs, let's think about spirits. Now it would totally suck to play as a bound spirit, as you have to listen to this whiny pink fleshy punk order you around for a few minutes and you are always on call. I mean, how are you supposed to get time for a run in the mean time? "Sorry guys, some one just summoned me again." "Dammit Carl, thats the 10th time today! We need you on point for this man!" Now of course I was just being sarcastic, but what about Free Spirits? |
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Apr 3 2008, 04:22 AM
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#66
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,831 |
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 2 2008, 05:23 PM) Seriously though, I just don't see what kind of roleplaying purpose this could have. I mean, how did a dragon get to the point that it needs to beg Johnson's for scraps? I just don't see it. As for AI's, make TMs playable first! They are close enough, just need some help in the BP and DP section. Just because a dragon works for a Johnson, do not make the mistake of thinking that he is begging for scraps. |
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Apr 3 2008, 04:27 AM
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#67
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Unless the wyrm has a gambling problem.
Just a reminder, dragon shadowrunners have a long and glorious history in Shadowrun. Everybody remember Hart's original partner in the Secrets of Power trilogy? |
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Apr 3 2008, 04:31 AM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
It's been awhile since I read 'em, don't remember. But I do recall a dragon nightclub owner in one of the sourcebooks...Damien, I think?
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Apr 3 2008, 04:39 AM
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#69
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Hey, I finally found some rules that'll let me make a full-on Mage (instead of a Magic Adept) and not feel like a pansy!
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Apr 3 2008, 04:43 AM
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#70
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,831 |
OK I was playing around by making a dragon character in the SR4 character generator. I was using an Eastern Dragon, but this could also be the same for a western dragon:
Attributes: Base Dragon Skills: 56 BP Spellcasting 5 Counterspelling 3 Conjuring Skill Group 1 Perception 2 Etiquette (Dragons) 1 (3) Qualities: -20 (I for one am going to assume that the Magician and Sensitive System count against your maximums) Bad Luck Spells: 18 Points Foci: 3 Point Sustaining Focus Money: 11 Points (6 to buy the focus plus 25k left over) Left over: 7 for contacts. I personally don't find this to be too over powered. |
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Apr 3 2008, 04:49 AM
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#71
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Target Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 17-April 07 Member No.: 11,473 |
It does remind me of Hart's Partner Ancient history, in fact that was the first thing that sprung to my mind. He wasn't exactly a bruiser either. Fearsome yes, but not a night invulnerable tank. Either way, I just thought of yet another thing that'd really make a dragon's life difficult. Can you imagine first aid for a dragon? First off you need someone who knows how to handle such anatomy to administer first aid. Once you hop that hurdle you need the proper tools and strength for the job. No drugs that work on humans would work on dragons in those doses (that's even assuming the drugs are compatible with dragon anatomy). And then you gotta figure out how to adminster the first aid to something significantly larger then you. Trying to sew shut a wound that's bigger then you are with scaley armor-like hide would probably be a pain in the rear. Somehow I don't think Doc Wagon has a special unit for dragons as well. This all amuses me more and more, the more I think about it. And then there's probably people in the shadows who're liable to go "Ah slot it! He's made outta expensive reagents anyway."
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Apr 3 2008, 04:51 AM
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#72
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
I will use my ultrafine logic skillz to break this down two ways:
IF A: lawl. IF B: Retarded. Also, in shadowrun novels? Dragon runners are still retarded. The fact that someone else somewhere thought it was a good idea does not reduce the stupid involved. |
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Apr 3 2008, 04:57 AM
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#73
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,831 |
QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 2 2008, 09:51 PM) I will use my ultrafine logic skillz to break this down two ways: IF A: lawl. IF B: Retarded. Also, in shadowrun novels? Dragon runners are still retarded. The fact that someone else somewhere thought it was a good idea does not reduce the stupid involved. Yeah that is some ultra-fine logic you have there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif) Just because you don't like the idea, does not mean that no one will and does not mean that it is inherently stupid. If you don't like the idea, then there is no need to use it. It is an optional book after all. It's meant to allow rules for all sorts of games and dragon-play is just one kind of play. It's no different then making a book on LA or any other city. I don't want to go play there, but it doesn't mean no one will. |
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Apr 3 2008, 05:03 AM
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#74
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
QUOTE (True Believer @ Apr 2 2008, 09:57 PM) Yeah that is some ultra-fine logic you have there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif) Well, I'm a big fan of boiling retarded down to the bare bones. QUOTE Just because you don't like the idea, does not mean that no one will and does not mean that it is inherently stupid. If you don't like the idea, then there is no need to use it. It is an optional book after all. It's meant to allow rules for all sorts of games and dragon-play is just one kind of play. It's no different then making a book on LA or any other city. I don't want to go play there, but it doesn't mean no one will. You're right! Thankfully, that's totally not what I'm saying. I'm saying that even if I liked it, it would still be retarded. Like adding Star Trek to an other wise totally mundane Dragonlance game, or including the Real Ghostbusters (in all their cartoony glory) in Batman Begins. Seriously. Dragons will not be running around with criminals who have been rejected by society, because Dragons can sell their toenails to make more money than any runner will see in a year. Dragons can simply start a talk show and become world famous by virtue of merely existing. The only reason a dragon would run around with Shadowrunners is because that dragon is... (please insert drumroll here) ...retarded. Like, he's got draconic downs syndrome or was dropped on his head or something. It's stupid to paint a target on your head to begin with. It's even more stupid if every living thing that sees you will remember you for the rest of their lives and your entire body is made of money. |
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Apr 3 2008, 05:04 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
QUOTE (True Believer @ Apr 3 2008, 12:57 AM) Yeah that is some ultra-fine logic you have there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif) Just because you don't like the idea, does not mean that no one will and does not mean that it is inherently stupid. If you don't like the idea, then there is no need to use it. It is an optional book after all. It's meant to allow rules for all sorts of games and dragon-play is just one kind of play. It's no different then making a book on LA or any other city. I don't want to go play there, but it doesn't mean no one will. I personally agree with what you are saying. I am all for having plenty of options for a GM and players to have access too. I am the last person to promote the dimishing of other's ideas. That being said. If you are going to do something, atleast try to do it right. If the rules are real, they should have put alot more time and thought into them. There are way too many blatant, simple rules errors and contradictions. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry660618 |
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