I wasn't really thinking unmodified, iBalls have 8 modification slots.

The way I was reading the text it had not even occurred to me that drones could be members of a TacNet. I suppose their Pilots could benefit when operating autonomously. In that case I wouldn't count it's sensor rating as it's number of streams I would count it's number of sensors instead, up to 5 in the case of the iBall.

one thing about degradation, the timeframe is 1 month only for hacker and malware programs. its 2 months for all the rest. so it will take a year for a rating 6 common app to degrade to uselessness...

I still have no answer to my question: For what game/balance reason was it put in?

money sink, like ammo for the sammie, summoning materials for the mage, and other consumables.

that is, if you try to be cheap and crack a program so that you can spread it around. break out that fake id, put your activesofts and other non-agressive stuff on it, who is going to tell anyways?

So, if a money sink was needed for hackers, hackers were overpowered before?

Question on Nexi:

The rules on pg. 50 suggest a Nexus's Persona limit is (System x 3)

The gear list on pg. 198 list Persona limits of 10's and 30's.

Which is correct?

i distinctly recall people complaining that a hacker could be maxed out of the gate, with nowhere to go with his money or karma...

Well, it was true that a hacker could reach its hacking peak in a very short time (skill 6+2, programm / hardware 6). However, the new crackings rules does not hinder the hacker really. We are talking about a maximum upkeep of several thousend nuyen per month, something which should be payable by such a good hacker (except the GM pays only 500Â¥ for an infiltration into a high security area to kidnap the super scientist).

It is just .... bookkeeping without sense and purpuse.

SYL

I think there's a pretty significant difference between not being able to advance much after creation, and having to pay to not become weaker. I also think that, although I dislike power creep, that Unwired should have offered more options for Hackers to spend nuyen (and maybe karma) on new stuff, like the other sourcebooks allowed for everyone else.

So, were hackers overpowered before, and needed to be taken down a peg while everyone else (mages, adepts, TMs, samurais, riggers etc.) was boosted by the different splatbooks?

That's the other impression I got - where's the mechanical reason for this, if it's insignificant as a money drain?

You've obviously never owned a Zune. Or played with SecuROM 7.*.

Still waiting for an answer to the mechanical and game balance reason to put the SOTA rules in. Or, to make it easier: Why wasn't it assumed to be done "behind the scenes", like so much else? (Cleaning weapons, replacing barrels, personal hygenie, etc.)

Just my own opinion, but the SOTA rules protect the role of the hacker. A hacker has no problem keeping his programs up to date, the casual user has. You are kept from dropping a few grand on matrix stuff and take over the hackers job.

That may have been the intention, but it even crippels dedicated hackers and riggers. Of course, the whole intention is wrong, as every runner needs to be able to survive in the digital world, while hacker always will have the advantage of simple focus on that point - it's not like only street sams are allowed to shoot people.


That's the Can of Worms opened by Registration/Degradation:

The casual user includes non-hacking runners. And every piece of gear has software. Obviously, it's suicide for its software to be registered.
You do the math.

Tycho quoted a rule incorrectly and in the wrong context as I said above. First he had the wrong page number, second he tried to say that it applied to all patch updates when it clearly was intended to a apply to only initial purchase, third he neglected to account for the fact that it sed the word "may" not "will" or "shall".



I think the SIMPLEest solution to the problem you describe is to reduice the frequency of SIN checks. Reduce it from the un-economically sound levels you imply to some rare occurance. Border Crosing? Yes, there should be a check. Entering a High Security building? Yes, there too. Getting o a Plane, buying a car, applying for a gun license, getting arrested? All yes. Walking down the street in a AAA zone... MAYBE If security is feeling paranoid. Buying a soycalf at the Shack? That's just silly. Why exclude customers? It's bad for buisness, and if SR is about anything it's about the greed of the corps.



MS does not CARE if the program was LEGALY bought. They care that they got their money. Just cuz you used a stolen credit card to buy Windows XP is NOT going to stop MS from activating your copy. They care they your software license number is correct and that it is only being used by one computer. They will check the credit card when you BUY the software (not the ID mind you, just the credit card) to make sure they get paid. But on each SW update? Nope. No reason to. It would just cost them time and money.



Not so. The powers that be could RECORD all the IDs, and spot check a small percentage. This allows them to track people down later if something bad happens. It's like making people wear name-pages with pictures. They don't closely examine each one, but it makes it hard to be anonymous. Spot checking a few is like those people selected for "enhanced screening" at the airport. It's anyone who fits a profile, plus a few extra random people to keep everyone on their toes.

I think the whole "SINs get checked a thousand times a day" idea is a bit of over-reading of the source material. Another reading, just as valid is that SINs get checked less frequently. This is a difference of opinion, so there is no RIGHT answer, but in the second reading NPC and corps are acting in their economic intrests, and Shadowrunners stand half a chance of making it a day without being arrested.

It is common in SR4 (and SR3 too) to check the SIN, both as a spotcheck. Until now you could argue that the seller does not check the ID itself, only the credit balance of the buyer. However now it is stated that all software sellers, especially in the case of combat software, "may" (and most GMs will) check the ID (not only the balance), and not only with a superficial check, but with a SIN check so deep it even could mean trouble for SOTA-SINs (rating 6).

Oh, btw, do SINs degrade too? After all, SINs, IDs etc are mostly data and software in an environement which is controlled and checked very often. What about device rating and the OS-Software for almost all electronic gadgets? Does electronic equipment degrade too? And then of course there are the non-hacker runner.



Unfortunetely that is a world change in the same category as "in our game there is no "degenerating software". Of course you can do in our group (and we did it for our group as well especially because of the SIN/streetsam-probleme).



Of course M$ does ... everytime I go online with the auto updater. It checks my system for a correct serial/registration/authentification-process. The same goes for other software.



This has nothing do to with the payment. Did you bought the software from its producer? Then yes, you bought it legally, probably with an SIN check rating 2-4. Then the software is registered and you can download the patches. Did you bought the software on the black market? Then you have no registration with the patch server and must get the patches from another source.

SYL

How many programs does your groups mage use on corporate hosts, so that they can leave evidence in the access logs of said hosts? About zero? The trace-bonus is not a great deal because you can only reliably avoid a trace by shutting down the device anyway, should you even know that you are traced.

(And I did the math, I prefer cracked software and a browse agent + monthly payments even for my non-hackers. At the time of equal costs, rating*9 months into the future, I won´t care about a couple of thousand ¥ per month.)

Of course there is the houserule that any kind of verification system rolls (Rating) dice against a (Rating) Threshold of the fake.

Which will make rating 3 fakes actually useful and rating 6 fakes as solid as they are described.

Yes it checks your system for a legit serial, but it doesn't in any way check that i'm me. MS doesn't care who i am, just that I have a legally bought copy of the windows. And that check can be skipped by using one of the mirror sites.



No, just no i just go in to a store and give them money and they give me the software no ID checks, why would they care who you are as long as they get their money.

About most common use programs available, stealth, plus system and firewall.


Just with the trace bonus, you don't even have time to do so. Of course, the described datatrail can be used for more...


It's not so much about the money, but the insane ammount of rolls and bookkeeping.
By RAW, every piece of runner-gear now needs to be accounted for in multiple ways.

No, you do not do that in SR. In SR you do the following:


and

and


So yes, contrary to what Lebo77 said, I truly think that the authors of Unwired except a SIN/ID check with a rating of 2-4 against your real or fake SIN/ID everytime you buy legal software from a legal vendor.

-------------------------------------------------------

And again: the archetype hacker has to make or buy 17 rolls each month (or every second month depending on the software) and my chaos mage has to make 46 rolls if he wants to stay in the shadows. Then there is an inconsistency in the rules regarding what kind of software (one page says common/hacking/simsense/autosoft, the other page adds agents and operating systems). Then of course it is unclear what happens with SIN, device ratings, unrated software and software without category (mapsoft, sensorsoft). To be honest: even the 70 000Â¥ my character will get back for buying cracked software will not balance the stupid and boring bookeeping I am now forced to do if I want to play in the "official world".

SYL

Registering the software with a SIN: So you have to give them a SIN number. They record it. Do they HAVE to run a check? Of course not. They will do so only if it is in their best interest. So long as they get paid, they need not worry about the SIN check.

And if they intended them to run the check every time, why use the word "may" in the rule Tycho (mis) quoted? Why not "will" or "shall". A close reading of the text implies it is optional. I am reading the text, you are attempting to read the developer's minds.



Hey, I don't like the SOTA system any more then you do! I think it is a bookeeping mess and a general nightmare. However, I do think there should some game balance reason why cracked software is not totally superior to uncracked software. I would rather lump it all together and come up with a monthly bill for the hacker, with a single roll each month. The developers went another way. Fine. I can allways house rule it. That said, paying 10% of retail for software should come with a downside.

(I also don't like that registered software makes it easier for you to be tracked. If you use an Ares SW suite to crack a Aztech node, why should Ares help the Azzies catch you again? How is that in their interest?)

Your groups mage is using Edit and Command on corporate hosts? You call that a non-hacking char???

The base threshold for trace is 10. That buys at least the first IP, regardless of bonus dice. If you know you are traced, shut down your connection. Pretty academic as a non-hacker has less of a chance detecting the trace than a hacker. Stupid observe in detail actions, stupid agents running stealth.

About the book-keeping: Use an agent, buy successes. If you don´t care about the matrix, use an anonymous rating 4 open source program. If you do, be part of a coder/cracker/warez group, details up to you and your GM. Buy successes for that, too.

@Rotbart: It´s not about you in particular, but I don´t get how rather constant SOTA costs are worse than the religious counting of ammo most groups have going (We abandoned it quite some time ago, a flat payment that takes individual training into account is way better. Funny parallels...).

Yes, in effect, that is what I'm saying. But, others are not "adventuring," as you put it, to get better. Armor degrades, bullets run out, guns break or jam, drones/vehicles need repairing (a lot), cyberware must be purchased/upgraded, etc. Frankly, about the only character that I've never seen trying to stay at the top of their game were TMs and Mages. But, as we know, the spend their karma more so than their nuyen.

In my opinion, yes. When many of my other players would be spending every dollar of their cash on new ware, bullets, materials, spells, etc., hackers were often sitting pretty on quite a bit of cash because they had bought rating 6 programs at character gen and after a few thousand dollars, had a 6/6/6/6 commlink to use them on. The only other character that seems to amass money like a hacker is usually an adept or a mage that doesn't bind. And TMs, but they use karma like no tomorrow.