IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
masterofm
post Aug 7 2008, 07:54 PM
Post #51


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,058
Joined: 4-February 08
Member No.: 15,640



Also a good point, in the end the magical healing comes last. Either as a last resort, or as the last option in the treatment. Part of the cynic in me for the SR world though would think that they will want you in that hospital as long as possible paying them as much as you can afford (and probably then some)... then your out the door tubes and all. The tubes cost extra though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Heath Robinson
post Aug 7 2008, 08:01 PM
Post #52


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,263
Joined: 4-March 08
From: Blighty
Member No.: 15,736



QUOTE (masterofm @ Aug 7 2008, 08:54 PM) *
Also a good point, in the end the magical healing comes last. Either as a last resort, or as the last option in the treatment. Part of the cynic in me for the SR world though would think that they will want you in that hospital as long as possible paying them as much as you can afford (and probably then some)... then your out the door tubes and all. The tubes cost extra though.

Of course. They will spare no expense in ensuring that you are in the best of health before letting you go (even if you just want them to fix up your leg). Expect regular Healthy Glow castings, because it's good for Hospital PR if all the patients look as though they are in good health (especially in the cancer wards). Hence the covering the cost of the adept's care in addition to paying a hefty sum for the service in the first place.

Magical healing should definitely come last, because it probably has a tendancy to seal up wounds around foreign objects. Mundane medical care goes through and removes as much foreign material as possible in addition to doing whatever good it can.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sunnyside
post Aug 7 2008, 08:51 PM
Post #53


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,325
Joined: 31-December 06
Member No.: 10,502



QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Aug 7 2008, 03:01 PM) *
because it probably has a tendancy to seal up wounds around foreign objects.


You know I hadn't really thought about that but yeah. Much amusement awaits me as my players turn themselves into junkyards of bullets, shrapnel and assorted items.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonDecker
post Aug 7 2008, 10:29 PM
Post #54


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 25
Joined: 17-April 08
Member No.: 15,903



Remember, it isn't unknown for a govt to control what their magic users learn. Remember in Tir-south-of-seattle they intentionally train their awakened children hermetic magic, rather than shamanistic in order to shape the way the kids see magic, and thus how they will use it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rasumichin
post Aug 7 2008, 10:47 PM
Post #55


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,300
Joined: 6-February 08
From: Cologne, Germany
Member No.: 15,648



QUOTE (DragonDecker @ Aug 7 2008, 11:29 PM) *
Remember, it isn't unknown for a govt to control what their magic users learn. Remember in Tir-south-of-seattle they intentionally train their awakened children hermetic magic, rather than shamanistic in order to shape the way the kids see magic, and thus how they will use it.


Such a waste, given that most of the people in the Tir who have the chance to get a decent education get +2 CHA...
They should really switch over to that path magic stuff from the other Tir.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cthulhudreams
post Aug 7 2008, 11:09 PM
Post #56


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,650
Joined: 21-July 07
Member No.: 12,328



Another possible way of dealing with BC is just to cycle the wards around. Moving maternity should help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DireRadiant
post Aug 7 2008, 11:30 PM
Post #57


The Dragon Never Sleeps
*********

Group: Admin
Posts: 6,924
Joined: 1-September 05
Member No.: 7,667



1% of the population can possibly qualify for certain jobs. There are only 10,000 positions that use those qualifications. What do the rest of the qualified candidates do?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Flatliner
post Aug 8 2008, 09:25 AM
Post #58


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 25-June 08
From: Los Angeles Island
Member No.: 16,082



The feeling from the world always seemed that more than just a few could use magic effectively, if perhaps just a team composition thing.

Playing the one percent very strictly seems to push the game toward the "oh no, my mage is too strong" scenario; versus the average run, which always contains some kind magical security- something they wouldn't have if there was so little active powerful magic in the world.

I've personally never bothered to quantify the amount of Awakened in the world.

I still don't quite consider it a "high magic" setting where any character is using a "+5 zweihander" but still think of it as a place with a lot more magic than the canon text lists.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shiloh
post Aug 8 2008, 10:12 AM
Post #59


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: 4-April 08
Member No.: 15,843



QUOTE (Flatliner @ Aug 8 2008, 10:25 AM) *
The feeling from the world always seemed that more than just a few could use magic effectively, if perhaps just a team composition thing.

Playing the one percent very strictly seems to push the game toward the "oh no, my mage is too strong" scenario; versus the average run, which always contains some kind magical security- something they wouldn't have if there was so little active powerful magic in the world.


Magic gets concentrated in certain areas of endeavour. It *doesn't* mooch around in the "average".

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Flatliner
post Aug 8 2008, 10:28 AM
Post #60


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 25-June 08
From: Los Angeles Island
Member No.: 16,082



Separate from pure statistics, that doesn't deal with the "feel" of the world. There seems to be a lot of magic around- even taking into account that the "average" Shadowrun is well outside of the norm for the average mundane person

-and why would a group have (depending on size) both an adept and a magician when those people could easily get jobs for corps or even (for the mages) freelance to put up a ward once a week for various sites with a regular paycheck to have the pocket secretary (or comlink for you 4e people) on - not even dealing with the whole "wage mage" situation?

In my personal opinion there just seemed like a lot more magic than the developers let on, so I just pretended the "one percent" stat wasn't ever written down.

This is an interpretation of the setting thing- everyone will approach their understanding of the SR world differently.

To me, it's a fantasy game with a lot of cyberpunk tropes. --and I came to it thinking it was a sci-fi cyberpunk game with a few fantasy tropes, but that opinion changed as I read more into the world and the content in general.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Isath
post Aug 8 2008, 10:56 AM
Post #61


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 336
Joined: 18-June 08
Member No.: 16,062



I ususally go with the magic is somewhat rare approach and it works out perfectly. Every character has reasons to participate in the campaign and not to be elsewhere. The problem of keeping the mage in check without magic seldom arises and so I do not have them confront magic at every corner. Else I would have the feeling of magic becoming to mudane. Also I see the Team as something "special" one way or the other, as they are the focus of the story. Someone playing an awakened character, for example in a street-level-setting, should include some reasons why he is doing what he is doing in his backgroundstory...then again everybody should.

However I agree it is a matter of opinion, preference, interpretation, stetting and what ever.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shiloh
post Aug 8 2008, 11:04 AM
Post #62


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: 4-April 08
Member No.: 15,843



QUOTE (Flatliner @ Aug 8 2008, 11:28 AM) *
-and why would a group have (depending on size) both an adept and a magician when those people could easily get jobs for corps or even (for the mages) freelance to put up a ward once a week for various sites with a regular paycheck to have the pocket secretary (or comlink for you 4e people) on - not even dealing with the whole "wage mage" situation?


If that's a possibility for your Awakened PCs, then they need to account for *why* they haven't taken that "easy" job and have elected to run the Shadows. Whether that's some personal crusade or whacked-out desire to test themselves in combat or whatever, if "going legit" is easy, the reasons why that hasn't happened need to be explored.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blade
post Aug 8 2008, 11:52 AM
Post #63


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,009
Joined: 25-September 06
From: Paris, France
Member No.: 9,466



I think that streetsamurai with 250 000/1M nuyens worth of 'ware and 0.025 essence, highly skiled de/ha-ckers and many other starting characters are also part of less than 1% of the population. They all need good reasons to be running the shadows instead of going legit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sunnyside
post Aug 8 2008, 12:33 PM
Post #64


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,325
Joined: 31-December 06
Member No.: 10,502



QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 8 2008, 07:52 AM) *
I think that streetsamurai with 250 000/1M nuyens worth of 'ware and 0.025 essence, highly skiled de/ha-ckers and many other starting characters are also part of less than 1% of the population. They all need good reasons to be running the shadows instead of going legit.


Huh, we hadn't mentioned that yet.

Anyway yeah. It takes some explaining why your character at one point had over 100,000 nuyen and they chose to put it into that big fancy piece of cyberware and are now back on the streets.

And most decker characters could be highly paid in a corp setting.

Though I suppose the path to legit money is quite as clear as with mages.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Halabis
post Aug 8 2008, 01:49 PM
Post #65


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 232
Joined: 19-October 04
Member No.: 6,773



How about this?

1 percent of Metahumans are magicaly active.
Far far less than 1% of metahumans have the advanced combat training necisary to be a street samurai
shouldnt their be more mages than street samurai?

1% Is actualy quite a sizable portion of the population. We're talking millions of magicians around the world here.

Edit: doh beaten to the punch
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shiloh
post Aug 8 2008, 02:00 PM
Post #66


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 421
Joined: 4-April 08
Member No.: 15,843



QUOTE (Halabis @ Aug 8 2008, 02:49 PM) *
1% Is actualy quite a sizable portion of the population. We're talking millions of magicians around the world here.


Tens of millions, neh? (xe9/100 = xe7) Or did the Big Disasters drop population by a whole order of magnitude? I thought it was more decimation than 90% casualty rate...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cthulhudreams
post Aug 8 2008, 04:43 PM
Post #67


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,650
Joined: 21-July 07
Member No.: 12,328



Highly skilled shootists actually have pretty limited job opportunities, unlike mages with the heal spell. Consider the percentage of GDP spent on healthcare vs defense and you'll see what I mean.

Most characters actually have a highly limited skillset for 'civilian life' except for full magicians and some mystic adepts.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Isath
post Aug 8 2008, 05:15 PM
Post #68


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 336
Joined: 18-June 08
Member No.: 16,062



Hackers could still work as admins, network specs, programmers etc.

Riggers have a wide range there for piloting whatever needs a pilot, and thats just the tip of whatever sank the titanic.

Streetsams might not be too civilian in their choices as Bodyguard or such, but many might try to be a teacher in selfdefense or something like that... but they are basicaly somewhat military oriented yes.

A face... enough choices I'd say.

Depending on the character they should have some choices, I admit though, that mages have a base talent, that is worth quite a ton.

It comes down to who are you and why are you doing this every time. It is one of the most important questions you should have your character answer to, when you create "it".

One in a hundred is not a low number for the awakened but do not forget, that this number includes those with lesser talents, latent awakening and so on. The number of fullfledged magicworkers is (in my opinion) far lower. However I guess it still finds a balance somewhere between the general rarity and the demand, making magic services highly paid, but preventing them from being irreplacable.

The worlds pupollation indeed got heavily decreased during the early time of the awakening, though I do not recall the numbers atm .
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cthulhudreams
post Aug 8 2008, 06:23 PM
Post #69


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,650
Joined: 21-July 07
Member No.: 12,328



Certainly, though remember a significant proportion of system administration tasks will have been automated. I would actually suspect that the range of jobs for IT professions would decrease significantly, except possibly for people who just cut new access IDs into ICs/agents, which would be a boring job and has a maximum possible salary that isn't very high before it becomes uneconomical to pay you to perform the work.

Riggers are in much the same bind. Rigging work is actually very easy to outsource as there are few to no prohibitions on remote piloting, and the vast majority of work is handled by pilot programs and riggers jump in when required - as outlined in the description of one of the armored trucks in arsenal.

Given that, and that only a tiny percentage of all trucks would be under active armed attack at any one time, this entire operation could be run out of Bangalore, or using a tiny handful of riggers shared amongst entire fleets. The military is the most likely employer as simple military realities are going to require actually sending the rigger out with the tanks.

I can actually see plenty of reasons for these people to end up in the shadows because they hate the work (I would!), and actually lots of mages

The urban shamans described earlier with low educations are unlikely to be able to secure a job at a corp hospital because they are likely to be felons - but they are similarly unavailable to be corp sec mages or other professional employment.

IMHO the awakened overall would be a significant percentage and perhaps the majority of all runners. If your a gang, no-one you can ever get access to is going to have pistols 6 and loads of cyberwear. But you merely hve to get lucky to have someone with magic 2, and they can cast heal and summon spirits. A huggggggggge asset - and as lots of people are born into the urban combat zones, lots of them are going to go on to become criminals, and mages are spectuclarly likely to be good at it. You're going to keep them alive and the school of hard knocks is going to make them half decent.

A pistols 6 super sayan with hundreds of thousands in cyber or seriously good rigger however needs a significant overhead for training and a matching capital investment (most barrens gangers are not going to have hundreds of thousands of nuyen pass through their hands in a lifetime.) - meaning these people are likely to have come from the military of the corps and are less likely to have come from the street - and are thus less likely to become career criminals.

So anyway, I guess my point is that the awakened are disproportionately going to become shadowunners due the alignment of very poor socioeconomic situations and the lack of need for special training, whereas 'professional' awakened are disproportionately less likely to do security because of the range of other jobs available.



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Isath
post Aug 8 2008, 07:28 PM
Post #70


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 336
Joined: 18-June 08
Member No.: 16,062



Well if such a portion of the awakened is going to be criminal, the corps are in need of awakened security. As they sure as hell have the major say about where the awakened will find jobs worthwhile, they can make the awakened take the job. Also some people still like that business.

However I see this as a discussion without an end, as the topic it self allows many viable opinions and there is no "goal" to be achieved.

I guess there are many reasons to be a security mage, there are as many not to. After all it is a matter of individual choice and circumstance and in the end we end up having a SR setting we see to fit our campaign.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cthulhudreams
post Aug 8 2008, 07:37 PM
Post #71


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,650
Joined: 21-July 07
Member No.: 12,328



Actually, what I'd suspect they do is have very few sec mages held centrally in lone star response facilities and the majority of security will be guys with special and specific training and equipment to deal with magically active characters.

A cop costs 40k and a mage logically costs 300-400k or so, imho. But more interestingly a drone with a LMG bolted on costs 3-5k.


So, if I was in charge, what I'd do is instead of a sec mage, I'd have a much stronger physical presence including heavy drones with mounted grenade launchers on site. Then I'd get my outsourced riggers from bangalore to jump in when a threat is detected and bust out 10-15 drones (some rigged from bangalore which players can shut down with jammers, and some using their own pilot programs), in a half/half mix of thermal smoke spam and LMG/stick n shock/stun grenade spam. Drones have object resistance and with the thermal smoke popping everywhere it is going to be virtually impossible for the mage to get sufficient net hits to beat object resistance. On the flipside my drones have radar and don't need no stinking visual confirmation to start shooting.

My onsite guards are also all going to be packing good optics so they can see with the lights out, and will make extensive use of smoke grenades and suppressive fire. Background count in the facility if any will be mapped out and the guards will have that designated as their rally point in case of magical threats. Any magical threat detection will cause the buildings security rigger to instantly cut the lights (all my dudes can see in the dark) and if its a highly secure facility start venting smoke into the rooms.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mäx
post Aug 8 2008, 07:57 PM
Post #72


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,803
Joined: 3-February 08
From: Finland
Member No.: 15,628



QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Aug 8 2008, 10:37 PM) *
Any magical threat detection will cause the buildings security rigger to instantly cut the lights (all my dudes can see in the dark) and if its a highly secure facility start venting smoke into the rooms.


Well my combat mage can also see in the dark and has more dice then the quards so the smoke shawts the security more than him.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cthulhudreams
post Aug 9 2008, 08:56 AM
Post #73


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,650
Joined: 21-July 07
Member No.: 12,328



I presume your using the low light optical mod? A simple 'upgrade' to that strategy is just to add some lone star iballs with flaskpaks under desks, and have them rollout and burst, as the radar sense equipped secruity guards open fire through the drywall from another room.

Radar sensors actually makes the drones and the guards actually defacto immune to all the smoke they are throwing down. Your not going to be in a happy place vs a couple of steel lynxes just hosing down the area through drywall, with smoke or flashpaks in your room.

You're right to point out that additional non visual senses are better.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mäx
post Aug 9 2008, 09:09 AM
Post #74


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,803
Joined: 3-February 08
From: Finland
Member No.: 15,628



QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Aug 9 2008, 11:56 AM) *
I presume your using the low light optical mod? A simple 'upgrade' to that strategy is just to add some lone star iballs with flaskpaks under desks, and have them rollout and burst, as the radar sense equipped secruity guards open fire through the drywall from another room.

Yes low light+eye light+flarecompt so those iball don,t do anything eather

QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Aug 9 2008, 11:56 AM) *
Radar sensors actually makes the drones and the guards actually defacto immune to all the smoke they are throwing down. Your not going to be in a happy place vs a couple of steel lynxes just hosing down the area through drywall, with smoke or flashpaks in your room.


well he gets nice extra armor from that wall and then he just napalms the lynxes trought the holes they made in the wall, that should mess up the drones nicely.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JonathanC
post Aug 9 2008, 10:24 AM
Post #75


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,241
Joined: 10-August 02
Member No.: 3,083



The simple answer as to why mages don't all wind up making a billion dollars working for corps is as easy as answering why talented people in the real world wind up in dead-end jobs or wandering the streets. Stuff happens. People who were doctors in their own countries work retail in the U.S. American citizens with PhDs wind up wandering the streets or working for crappy pay at Community Colleges.

First, I think everyone here is really underplaying the importance of being born with a SIN. It's not as simple as 'hey, that guy threw a fireball, throw him some money and let's go'. I'm sure there's an undocumented worker who'd be a badass housekeeper out on the corner, waiting for day labor work. Would you want to give him your housekeys though? Just a random guy off the street with no background, no papers, totally untraceable by the system or anything else? No fingerprints on file, no listed address, no nothing; he's a ghost. He could butcher you in your sleep and nobody would ever find him.

Mind you, in reality, he's not much more likely than a natural-born citizen to butcher you in your sleep if you let him work in your house, but fear an paranoia doesn't need a fully-realized logical explanation; it just has to sound plausible and alarmist.

Secondly, there's the matter of the fear/distrust of the Awakened in general. Keep in mind that it's been, what, 60 years or so since the Ghost Dance wrecked America? We're talking about wide-spread destruction directed at people all across the country at the whim of some shamans. To say nothing of the dragons, metahuman weirdness, Bug spirits, horrors, etc. Think about how badly people treat Arab-Americans (or anyone who wears a turban, for that matter) in America now...and the death toll from various magic-related crap far outstrips American deaths from terrorism. People are superstitious *right now* about 'voodoo', and we aren't seeing visible proof that it exists everyday. Would you really trust some magic-slinging weirdo to hocus-pocus your flight? What if he sneezes? What if the planets aren't in alignment? What if he just doesn't like the look on your face? Again, the "real" risks aren't much greater than the risk of trusting automated airplanes or human pilots, but that doesn't matter; what matters is perception.

We already live in a world where if you LOOK like someone (and by "look like", I mean "have a similar skin tone/ethnic features") who did something bad, a decent portion of society is going to shun or at least distrust you. And The Sixth world is a hell of a lot more dystopian than our world. They've experienced more disasters, and on a larger scale. Within corp wageslaves and their bosses, paranoia regarding people who are outside of the norm would be totally out of control. We're talking like every bad parody of the 1950's multiplied by 1000.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th May 2025 - 09:47 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.