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Adam
post Sep 22 2008, 02:40 AM
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Official transcript and summary is up: http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/?p=250
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psychophipps
post Sep 22 2008, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Sep 21 2008, 04:04 PM) *
Y'know, I'm a big fan of the potty mouth, as I possess one myself, but this sort of commentary -- which says nothing about what you actually want out of Shadowrun -- really won't help you get what you want, partially because it makes you sound like a jerk, and moreso because after reading your post, I have no idea what you want -- beyond hot chicks to hook up with you and not turn out to be skeezy. Good luck with that.


I get surly when I don't get my sleep. My apologies.

I would very much prefer not to see an Earth Dawn tie-in metaplot. As these books are already being planned for, if they're not already in the process of writing, and have also been officially added to the release schedule, my wish is certainly not going to end up being your command.
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Adam
post Sep 22 2008, 03:04 AM
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As with all of our releases that have a big plot behind them, we look for the best ways to engineer plots that have trickle-down effects for all levels of 'runners, street criminals, organized criminals, and everyone else. Big changes "up top" stimulate the entire economy ...
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Grinder
post Sep 22 2008, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 22 2008, 02:19 AM) *
We
ll get to it...eventually...probably...well, I sent in a proposal for the verdamnt thing.


But you're not the only one writing for it, right? So I was wondering why the book wasn't mentioned at all in the roster for 2009.
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TW
post Sep 22 2008, 12:31 PM
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When planning a release schedule, the developer and higher-ups try to make sure it's a good mix of fluff, crunch, plot, so eventually some books take priority over other books. Also, even though Ancient's not the only one writing SR (though he writes _a lot_ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), there's still only one line developer who has to juggle all books in the various production stages...
Besides, instead of Awakened Haunts, you'll get the Almanac!
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Fuchs
post Sep 22 2008, 12:40 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Sep 22 2008, 05:04 AM) *
As with all of our releases that have a big plot behind them, we look for the best ways to engineer plots that have trickle-down effects for all levels of 'runners, street criminals, organized criminals, and everyone else. Big changes "up top" stimulate the entire economy ...


In this particular instance, "trickling down" soy sauce over the whole buffet is not advised. Restricting this particular taste to a select dish, like the vampire conspiracy, is much better. Those who like the taste can pour it over other dishes as they please.
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Grinder
post Sep 22 2008, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (TW @ Sep 22 2008, 02:31 PM) *
When planning a release schedule, the developer and higher-ups try to make sure it's a good mix of fluff, crunch, plot, so eventually some books take priority over other books. Also, even though Ancient's not the only one writing SR (though he writes _a lot_ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), there's still only one line developer who has to juggle all books in the various production stages...
Besides, instead of Awakened Haunts, you'll get the Almanac!


I know, but I'd like to get either a reason why the book is delayed or if it just has been forgotten to mention it for 2009. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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TW
post Sep 22 2008, 01:00 PM
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Not delayed, but pushed back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Grinder
post Sep 22 2008, 01:10 PM
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That's so much better... not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Synner
post Sep 22 2008, 03:45 PM
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Well, to put it simply: a 20th Anniversary only comes around every 20 years or so, and there's products we think/believe we should/must do that make perfect sense as Anniversary books. Books that celebrate and promote the setting, the game, and its 20-year heritage. Hence those books taking up some of the slots in our already overcrowded schedule.

Would I have liked to release Corporate Guide, Awakened Haunts, and a couple of other books I had planned next year? Hell, yeah. However, Catalyst and I have to consider Shadowrun as a game line and take a step back from what our personal tastes dictate. The 20th Anniversary is just too good an opportunity to pimp the game and showcase our plans for its future that we'd be idiots for not exploring it with a series of targeted and well-crafted releases. That said we kept a couple of must have projects in the mix: Vice and Running Wild and we'll be returning to our normally scheduled...errrr... schedule as soon as we can.

As for Fourth World-related metaplots... As a long time fan, I have pretty much the same reservations as every one else when approaching stuff like this - we've been around and seen it done right and seen it done wrong. However, that's the thing to keep in mind it can be done right or it can be done wrong.

The way I envision Fourth World related stories is much more akin to the original Harlequin campaign than most of the novels and Survival of the Fittest. What I always loved about Harlequin is that if done right at the end, characters only have the foggiest notion of the existance of immortals even though they've been emeshed for months in a plot that's woven around a life that's lasted centuries. The clues are all there, but its up to the characters to add it all up. That's my idea of a good story, one that slowly unveils some of the Secret History of the Sixth World to shadowrunners. A plot where their actions matter (for better or for worse). A plot that doesn't blurt things out, but hints and teases at the hidden mysteries, and yet is still exciting, dangerous and suggestive of something more, something secret. A story that introduces something new and exciting to the setting.
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Fuchs
post Sep 22 2008, 06:02 PM
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Please, no more "We don't give stats since the PCs won't ever kill this NPC" bullshit. That just screams "Author Pet NPC! Author Pet NPC! Mary Sue!". We don't have gods in Shadowrun.
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Adam
post Sep 22 2008, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (Fuchs @ Sep 22 2008, 08:40 AM) *
In this particular instance, "trickling down" soy sauce over the whole buffet is not advised. Restricting this particular taste to a select dish, like the vampire conspiracy, is much better. Those who like the taste can pour it over other dishes as they please.

The "trickle down" effect isn't "elves and dragons landing on your apartment roof" -- it's "elves and dragons stirred up things at a high level, and that has created a situation that has stimulated the criminal situation. You are part of the criminal community, and now you have to live with the criminal situation. You are still not doing tea with Ehran."

To go back to the original Harlequin ... all of it was created as a trickle-down from the immortal elves, and aside from the final chapter, you can play the _entire adventure series_ without knowing anything about the IEs or knowing who was behind the hirings.
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martindv
post Sep 22 2008, 06:25 PM
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Just putting this out there: I'd love to see a 20th-anniversary art retrospective. Especially if you could get some of the old artists to just talk about their experiences. I mean, goddamn, Tim Bradstreet met Alex Ross through their mutual work on Shadowrun twenty years ago.

Alex Ross! The man who painted probably the two most iconic graphic novels of the 1990s (Marvels and Kingdom Come) has b&w art in some of the first edition adventures.

Adi Granov was one of the conceptual designers for the Iron Man movie (and is doing a slowly-produced mini with John Favreau). Marko Djurdjevic (and his wife, who I don't recall worked on SR) and Clint Langley have also transitioned their own unique styles to wider audiences to critical and financial success. Marko's one of those artists comic writers really want to work with (and looking at the art on his Thor one-shots should explain why). And those are just people I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyway, I also guess this means Cities of Intrigue or something like it is slated for 2010 at the earliest.

But at we finally get Running Wild.
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Fuchs
post Sep 22 2008, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Sep 22 2008, 08:24 PM) *
The "trickle down" effect isn't "elves and dragons landing on your apartment roof" -- it's "elves and dragons stirred up things at a high level, and that has created a situation that has stimulated the criminal situation. You are part of the criminal community, and now you have to live with the criminal situation. You are still not doing tea with Ehran."

To go back to the original Harlequin ... all of it was created as a trickle-down from the immortal elves, and aside from the final chapter, you can play the _entire adventure series_ without knowing anything about the IEs or knowing who was behind the hirings.


The trickle down effect in the past was "hehehe, ain't it cool? IEs are behind everything, and in every book!".

If I can use sourcebooks without having my nose rubbed into IE facts, if the IE stuff is kept a rumor, and not much bigger than the Vampire conspiracy, then it's ok. My characters may not know anything, but as the DM, I was forcefed that stuff with every second rulebook.
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Adam
post Sep 22 2008, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Fuchs @ Sep 22 2008, 02:36 PM) *
The trickle down effect in the past was "hehehe, ain't it cool? IEs are behind everything, and in every book!".


And that's why I used an example of the way the trickle down effect can and does work without making everything about the IEs [until the last scene, which was a major bummer, so we'll try not to repeat that..]
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Fuchs
post Sep 22 2008, 07:28 PM
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My point is I hated how the IEs were forced into game info, unlike most other threats which are kept as rumors and options.
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Dumori
post Sep 22 2008, 07:32 PM
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To be honest I like the ED links well some of them. It's the flavor they add to the game and the depth. I really want to see some new "Knights Templar" stuff but that's off topic and set for 2075 IIRC
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Eugene
post Sep 22 2008, 09:01 PM
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I would have liked to have seen (a) a full-color anniversary special edition BBB* and (b) some idea as to when the electronic stuff might hit Battlecorps, but otherwise I'm super pumped about what's on the horizon. I'm particularly interested in how the new adventure format in Ghost Cartels turns out and the Dawn of the Artifacts, too. Plus all the novels to supplements and back again traffic, and the anthology sounds sweet.


* because it'll be weird to have two full-color books in the line and have neither be the core book. Also it would be awesome to have one. Just sayin'.

** Also, I guess another adventure besides "On the Run" in the boxed set. It's a good adventure (even if most people won't ever see the 2nd half of it without some tweaks), and it's got golden advice for new GMs, but (selfishly) I've already got one, you see...
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Prime Mover
post Sep 22 2008, 09:22 PM
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Pumped is as good a descriptor as any. Really looking forward to all the future releases and I for one am ready for the metaplot to get back to its roots. Kudos Synner.
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Wesley Street
post Sep 22 2008, 09:28 PM
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Sixth World Almanac: Would it be safe to say that it's a mash-up and rewrite of the three Shadows of..., Cyberpirates and other books with location details? A light glossing over each country? Updated for 2072 and with some new stuff, naturally? Maps and flags sound very nice.

And yay! on Running Wild's cover. That piece of art is awesome. I am curious if critter art from the Paranormal Animals of North America and Europe books will be reused. It was great work but Peter mentioned not wanting to blow the art budget so I'm curious as to how much new art will be brought in.
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Wesley Street
post Sep 22 2008, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (Eugene @ Sep 22 2008, 04:01 PM) *
It's a good adventure (even if most people won't ever see the 2nd half of it without some tweaks).

Honestly, it wasn't that hard to get my players to the second half. Must just be me.
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Grinder
post Sep 22 2008, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (Synner @ Sep 22 2008, 05:45 PM) *
Well, to put it simply: a 20th Anniversary only comes around every 20 years or so, and there's products we think/believe we should/must do that make perfect sense as Anniversary books. Books that celebrate and promote the setting, the game, and its 20-year heritage. Hence those books taking up some of the slots in our already overcrowded schedule.

Would I have liked to release Corporate Guide, Awakened Haunts, and a couple of other books I had planned next year? Hell, yeah. However, Catalyst and I have to consider Shadowrun as a game line and take a step back from what our personal tastes dictate. The 20th Anniversary is just too good an opportunity to pimp the game and showcase our plans for its future that we'd be idiots for not exploring it with a series of targeted and well-crafted releases. That said we kept a couple of must have projects in the mix: Vice and Running Wild and we'll be returning to our normally scheduled...errrr... schedule as soon as we can.


Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Grinder
post Sep 22 2008, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Fuchs @ Sep 22 2008, 08:02 PM) *
Please, no more "We don't give stats since the PCs won't ever kill this NPC" bullshit. That just screams "Author Pet NPC! Author Pet NPC! Mary Sue!". We don't have gods in Shadowrun.


How did you get the conclusion that it's going to happen?
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Fuchs
post Sep 22 2008, 09:56 PM
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I'd rather voice my thoughts now, and maybe have an effect, than complain later when it's done.
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The ubbergeek
post Sep 22 2008, 10:01 PM
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It isn't a bad option - the DM make the stats, or just leave things as fluff and background. It's not that you 'can't' kill them as much as some things are mysterious, some don't need stats at all, some may not even be, etc... Stateless, a thing still exist.

Hate to say, but work well in D&D, the supposedly rpg-less rpg. The new design philosophy have a similar side.
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