Y'know, it is possible that some folks are legendary not because of their skill levels, but their accomplishments.

Not really a valid argument, as Dunkleberry offed himself.

This. You don't need to be that much better than other people to continuously succeed. For example, in terms of raw athletic ability, Michael Jordan wasn't really head and shoulders better than other gifted NBA players; he still had to sweat it out like everyone else to win. But the sum total of his accomplishments and his sheer competitiveness was enough to push him over the edge and into a frontrunner for the best basketball player ever conversation. Same with guys like FastJack; he doesn't pick fights he can't win (as short of a list as that may be), but that doesn't necessarily imply there's no chinks in his armor. Not that I'd pick a fight with the cagey old bastard, mind you. I know what's good for me.

In Shadowrun, they're one in the same thing. Particularly with shadowrunners, which Fastjack technically is. Every one of those accomplishments gave him Karma and, unless he's just sitting on a few thousand unused points for no particular reason or has a pet free spirit feasting upon it, he should be retardedly skilled.

Of course, Fastjack is a prime example of why Shadowrun needs some kind of "SOTA" rules for skill levels. I'm referring to the 3rd Edition rules which caused degredation in all of your gear over time if you didn't constantly spend time and money honing it. And it makes doubly amount of sense in a field such as the Matrix, where virtually every month the ballgame changes. That also ignores the reality that aging does make it harder and harder to keep up with such things. Fastjack should have been a legendary hacker, but he shouldn't still be the top dog after all these years.

But in Shadowrun, he is, for the reason at the very start of this post. No matter how unrealistic, unbelievable, or implausible it may be.

That said as others have pointed out, the main focus of his character should be on his equipment. To reflect that unrealistiic/unbelieable/implausible take on him, he should have a tricked-out nexus or group of nexi at his disposal with 7+ ratings across the board. He likely has a host of custom-designed rating 7+ agents and every piece of software at a similar rating to boot, each one featuring most if not all of the best programming options available. He also likely has a permanent luxury house with a secondary luxury saferoom hidden inside from where he does most of his day to day work. This all takes money, however, so all the Karma in the world won't help with that in SR4... but which is pretty much required for him to live up to who he is supposed to be.

Is it ever stated anywhere that FastJack has not had any Leonization (or equivalent) treatments?

Not that I'm aware of. In fact, I just rather assumed he had, or was living a full-immersion lifestyle.

The Big D could not be killed. He did allow his physical body to die, not quite the same thing.

It goes back to my point though... do we *know* that person was Fastjack or just someone who claimed to be Jack on Jack's orders?

This whole thing kind of reminds me of the Tootsie Roll Pop commericals... The world may never know.

And sometimes a duck is just a duck.

I believe that FastJack is not really statable using the SR4 rules. He would have so much power it would be unbelievable. He would be able to basically do anything in the Matrix. He would have billions if not trillions of nuyen at his disposal, plus max connection rating contacts all over. I don't think anyone has the time or the patience to glean the entirety of the SR4 books to make FastJack, it would take a very long time.

Why would FastJack have so much money? I always figured he spent most of his time on Shadowland (and now Jackpoint), and was really selective about any shadowrunning he would do. Plus, no one even really knows who he is, so how could he have that much money to begin with? I think most of Fastjack's wealth would be tied up in some really expensive Matrix equipment, and some high grade cyberware. I also think he'd be able to call in favors from nearly anyone in that shadowrunning community to get things done. And while his power on the Matrix is formidable, I think he'd probably be matched by some other entities (Thomas Roxborough, Deus (while Deus was around), maybe some of the Otaku. I don't see Fastjack being invincibly powerful, just very, very important and influential.

Yes, but if FastJack does go on a run, he can charge pretty much however much you want. He is famous enough in the shadows where he wouldn't have to get out of bed for less then half a million(heck, he's a hacker, he doesn't have to get out of bed for a million).

I disagree. If you ask a player "What makes your character legendary?" he probably shouldn't be telling you "he's got a 12 in Strength" or something of that nature. While no doubt Shadowrun is a game with a good deal of focus on stats and equipment, it is still a characters accomplishments that should make him notable, not his statistics.

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Actually I don't believe Fastjack naturally has to be all that amazing, statistically that is. Cannonically he has at least one of the technical group skills at rating 7, which is "legendary" level. Probably either hacking, cybercombat, or software. He's listed in the BBB as such. The rest of his computer/electronic related skills are probably at 5 or 6, and he probably has a pretty good array of knowledge skills in matrix and computer related matters.

Asset wise he probably has a SOTA commlink with an array of hacking programs, most of which he programmed himself, and some of which are probably at rating 7 (Blackhammer definitely is, he wrote that one himself!). I think I recall them mentioning he has a Math Co-Processor, but other then that I'm not sure he has to have any other cyberwear (besides a datajack of course). More importantly then his stuff, Fastjack has been around forever. He likely has a very nice selection of contacts and a good number of markers he could call in. Its probably this (more then anything else) that would make him formidable vrs any opponent.

As for his attributes, he certianly has at least a 6 in logic, with an average charisma and a good willpower and intiution (probably 5). Though there is nothing in the books, I don't see why he should be anything more than average physically. If anything he's getting old, so his physical stats might be diminishing.

So anyways relevants stats for him:

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The question Cain has proposed is, can Fastjack still compete with technomancers and modern hackers? Well in Renraku Shutdown he proved that he was still a match for the Otaku of the day. I see Fastjack as being good, VERY good. But in SR4 (perhapce by design) the difference in being legendary (like Fastjack) and merely very good is rather slim. Fastjack probably has an edge on virtually anyone in the matrix, but that doesn't mean some young punk couldn't get lucky one day and take him out.

Anyways. If you want my opinon on why he's awesome. Consider this. He obviously has, and has had, the respect (and possibly the fear) of the Shadowrun community for what nearly 30 years now. But can you think of one of his accomplishments? Or something he has done that he has bragged about?

Me neither. Yet still they respect him and his abilities. So clearly he has done things. But those things have apparently never come to light.

THAT is why he is legendary.

*kanis raises his flat,warm, plastic pouch of Sioux City soylager*

Well put, Compadre!! might I suggest a toast?
To the man, the myth, the legend, Fastjack, who embodies the word and spirit of what it means to be a shadowrunner. May He be remembered fondly by friend and foe alike for as long as the grass grows and the rivers flow.

Casually hacking the Fuchi mainframe? In one of the SB's, he talked about some interesting system architecture that only existed at the heart of their systems. Someone else pointed out that only Fastjack could talk about casually hanging around there, taking in the sights.

We also know he took out multiple otaku in cybercombat, in RA: S. He's also able to lock Bash out of his own home system, the Denver nexus. He also has something to do with the formation of the Nexus and/or Shadowland. He's capable of rebuilding a Shadowland-style system from scratch, in less than five years; and knows enough about the new matrix to be teaching people tricks to this day.

So, we actually know a lot about him and his accomplishments.

I can't remember where I saw this, but it went something like this:

Employee: So I hear you're really good in advertising... What are some of your accomplishments?

Interviewee: Do you remember how you heard I was good?

Employee (thinks to himself a minute): Nope, good job, you're hired.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if FastJack was just really good at PR and never actually did anything?

The Shadowtech quote for the Maths SPU goes thus.
"I don't know any real decker who doesn't have a full blown one of these" Findler-man
"If you say so" Fastjack
which to me suggests he doesn't have one.

Also, I recall he once used an Apple computer in the early 21st century, a chip from which still lurked in his deck. I can't remember the source.
We need to compile a list of what we do know of FJ with references like the Ancient files. Get on it;)

FastJack is probably sporting an 8 Edge, under 4e rules anyone can be a wiz hacker with a few skills at six and some SOTA gear, but like most archtypes a high edge is what makes your great.

I'm really interested in this challenge. I would probably add an Exceptional Attribute (Logic) to MaxMahem's build and, though I don't like the flavour of it for someone who should be special on their own, you could maybe add Cerebral Boosters.

But anyway, we have some stats. Can we compare him to a TM now? And what sort of karma levels are we going to use for a baseline. A starting TM, a 100 karma TM and a 300 karma TM? How do those sound as comparison points. I think the 0 karma TM would be a useful point of comparison because it will give us a feel for both the legend against the TM's area of specialisation and the degree to which his skills are broader.

Honestly the stats I posted are almost achievable at character creation, and could easily be achived after a dozen runs or so (depending of course upon your game). That was partialy my point. Statisticly he's not particularly special. But thats okay because Shadowrun isn't a game just about stats. It's FastJack's achievements that make him legendary, not his stat block.

Could you make a technomancer that could beat him in a stand up fight? Almost certainly. But someones abilities in such conflicts are seldom what make one legendary. Take the Red Baron for example, while he was without question the greatest fighter pilot of his day, he was not necessarily the most skilled pilot, others like Werne Voss or Billy Bishop were arguably better pilots and gunners, the Red Baron was able to archive more victories in less advantageous situations due to his prudence and wisdom in plotting his attacks.

Shadowrun is a lot like that I think. A characters abilities extend beyond his character sheet and to his approach to the shadows. A character with inferior stats could end up being much more succesful in the shadows if he applies his talents more judiciously, and plots more crafitly. Idealy these sorts of things could be staisticaly represented, but in practice they are not. Because, again, Shadowrun characters end up being more (or less in cases) then their stat block.

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So anyways I think any statistical comparisons between him and PC's or NPC are irrelevant. Fights in shadowrun don't happen in isolation where the guy with the bests stats wins. And ultimately Shadowrun is a major Story NPC so his fate (both in canon and in peoples games) will be dictated by the needs/desires of the story. Though ultimately all PCs and NPCs fates are resolved the same way (with some minor help by the rolls of the dice).

I guess what I'm saying is, yeah FastJack is good. Legendary even. But the question as to weather he is better than a hypothetical technomancer possibly be is nonsensical. Comparisons in Shadowrun simply don't work that way. In fact it's my opinon that comparisons statistical comparisons between Shadowrunners don't make any sense in the larger sense of the game either. Shadowrun is driven by actions, not stats.

The problem is, as Max stated, that build is almost within character creation limits. The fair test would be to stat Fastjack, adding as much karma as you see fit; then applying the same amount of karma to a Otaku and seeing if he comes out better. The (IMO, mistaken) belief is that with enough karma, an otaku will outstrip a normal decker. I'd like to see if that really happens, or if the decker stays better than the otaku.

Like Max said, it's not the stats that make the legend. It's that something beyond the stats... Imagination. Creativity. the things that can't be quantified on a piece of paper.

Yes, you can build characters who can take on Fastjack in a fair fight. The thing is, you never would get that fair fight. He'd always be manipulating the situation to best suit HIS needs. You're more powerful than him? Congrats. Have fun facing the Agent Smith Army he's sending after your head. You're sneakier than he is? Awesome. Follow the trail into that node and enjoy trying to escape after he brings it down on your head. THAT is Legendary. That is why he's unbeatable. THAT is why he's unstatable.

He's Fastjack. And that's all there is to it.

While nowhere in the league of Fastjack or the Red Baron, I was the smallest guy on my high school football (American) team. Despite this, I used my technique to get the job done almost every single time. Not to mention that when people underestimated me due to my size, it was that much easier to upset them.

So, technically, Fastjack could be legendary simple due amazing application of his existing skills.

Otaku don't retain their abilities long enough to obtain the kind of karma that Fastjack has. It may be true that given the same amount of karma, an otaku may be more powerful than a decker, but you shouldn't have a 70 year old otaku going around doing his thing. Plus, I still think that because Fastjack's legendary, it's ok for Fastjack to break some rules (equipment and program ratings and the like). And at least from what we know from RA:S, an otaku at his/her prime is no match for Fastjack.

Not to be overlooked in the calculations is Fastjack's potential Contact list.