Manabolts won't work, because you do not have LOS to him. That is why a soundwave does work, is because it does not require LOS to anything except the center of the area that is affected.


Not even a specially built character. Any mage with at least 5 magic who knows soundwave and is willing to overcast it as high as he can. Also, as was shown, quite a few normal AV weaponry can still damage the vehicle too. Since the vehicle just has 20 armor 10 body (plus whatever spells you're willing to give it).

Or anyone with Edge and a lucky shot.

Which depends on GM allowance.

So does the mechatank.

If a GM's allowing that, then don't tell me that I need to deal with a conservative GM.

Whats so broken about the car? I see 20 armor (body 10, so book legal). 10 Personal armor. And a rigger cocoon. The "allowance" needed is letting him fit in the rigger cocoon with ballistic shields and so much armor on he can't move. Not the car.

You can't tell me most rigger characters doing the command vehicle thing haven't come up with something similar.

You're still relying on GM permission for his trick to work. And if he can presume GM permission, so can I.

What GM permission? We still hit at least 50 armor, without any worn armor by the character at all. So no, we aren't. In fact, the version I argued for, was only able to wear armor such that he was at a 1 in a physical attribute. So no, it does not require "special gm permission" anymore than just having the character OKed.

For the sake of arguement, assume you are allowed to make your called shot, sure, but you have to sucessfully penetrate the rigger cocoon barrier that is surrounding him to actually damage him.

The barrier qualifies as armor.

But calling a shot to avoid armor only negates armor he benefits from, it doesn't prevent the rules for shooting through a barrier from taking effect.

The problem is, shooting through a barrier only adds armor:

So, when you call a shot to bypass Armor, you also bypass Barriers as well. You still have the Blind Fire penalty to deal with; but since we're discussing a Longshot anyway, that doesn't matter at all.

Wrong. And you obviously don't want to apply this because its the very next paragraph.
SR4, 157, "If the weapon’s modified Damage Value does not exceed the
barrier’s Armor rating (modified by the weapon’s AP), then the
weapon is simply not strong enough to pierce the barrier, and the
attack automatically fails."
You reduce the characters armor to 0 for the shot. The barrier still has 20 armor. So, unless your shot does more DV than barrier armor - AP then it doesn't do damage, even if you bypassed the characters armor rating that the barrier added to.

Now, before you refute this, let me make sure I can explain it as clearly as possible. Best way I can think of is to use variables.
B = barrier armor. In this case b = 20.
C = characters armor. In this case, 50+.
You make a called shot, for a penalty of -C. You are unable to make this, without taking a longshot test. This sets C = 0 for your shot.
You take a longshot test. This still goes through the barrier, which is why the barrier added to the characters armor.
Shooting through a barrier says the DV has to beat armor - ap. B still equals 20, because you reduced C, not B.

Note that your quote references "Modified" armor values. Even though you didn't reduce the barrier's rating, you modified its armor to 0. Using your equasion:

B= Barrier's armor = 20
C= Character's armor = 50+
A= Total Armor rating = 70+
M= Modified Armor rating = 0

Wrong. You modify the characters armor, not the barriers. The 50+ was already the characters modified armor, as his actual armor is something in the 0-6 range. +20 vehicle armor + 10 personal armor + 20 barrier in the way + magical spells = 50+.
You even show that B is still 20. Which is what is compared for shooting through a barrier.

Not to mention,
SR4, 150, Called shot options "Target an area not protected by armor. The attacking character receives a negative dice pool modifier equal to the target’s armor (better armor is more difficult to bypass). If the attack hits, the target’s armor is ignored for the damage resistance test; the target rolls only Body."

So, it even is explicitly only ignored for the damage resistance test. Thus, when you check to see if it makes it past the barrier, no matter what, it has its full armor value, as that isn't the damage resistance test.

But the part you cite is *part* of the damage resistance test. The modified armor is 0, so it bypasses it.

No, it isn't. Shooting through a barrier is not part of the damage resistance test. It is its own check done, when you shoot through the barrier. Not enough damage, no damage resistance test.

Also, you still are only modifying your target's armor. Not the barriers. The barrier still has 20 armor.

You add the barrier's Armor to the target's. So, it does stack, and gets bypassed as a stack.

You're also assuming I'm not firing a weapon with a base power of 10 or greater.

You do add the barriers to the targets yes. But you only bypass the targets. And when checking to see if an attack passes through the barrier, you check against the barriers armor, not the targets.

You mean 20? Or something with a power that is greater than 20-its ap?

The barrier's *modifed* armor. Which, we have established, is zero.

And you're right. I was thinking about the Structure rating, and got confused. Nevertheless, weapon choice does not matter for the longshot test. We don't need skill in the weapon to default, and the defaulting penalty is just one more to add to the longshot pile.

No, we have established that the targets modified armor is 0. The barrier is not the target, the character is. Thus, the barrier retains its full armor value for purposes of shooting through barriers.

Weapon choice does matter, as you have to be able to break through the barrier.

The barrier is considered to be part of the target's modified armor, which is reduced to zero. Thus, a toothpick fired from a rubber band can now get through.

Just use Manaball?

Manaball requires, as does every Direct Combat spell, actual LOS to each and every target in the Area of Effect. Indirect Combat spells do not have this requirement.

You are incorrect. Lets break it down differently for you.

A = modified armor that will be checked for damage resitance test.
C = worn armor by the character
B = armor rating of barrier
V = vehicle armor rating
P = passenger armor rating

Now, typically, A = C+B+V+P.
You do a called shot, that makes A = 0.

B still is 20. V still is 20, and P still is 10. Even C is still 6 or whatever. Only A is modified to be 0, at the time of the damage resistance test. Which happens after you check to see if it goes through the barrier.

For A = 0, C + B + V + P must equal 0 as well. Since you can't have negative armor, the only way CBVP can equal zero is if all of them equal zero.

No. The rules say, A = 0. Think of variables.
Initially and normally, A = C+B+V+P.
You do a called shot, that sets A = 0.
C B V and P do not need to change their values. Because A is no longer equal to them.