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Snow_Fox
post Nov 6 2008, 02:31 AM
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Last night I was re-reading Ivy and Chrome and was suddenly struck by how much time has passed in the SR universe.
We now are in the 2070's, right? Ivy and Chrome took place in 2051.I was struck by them saying the school kids will be taken by a 'display on 2050's cool" and does anyone still have characters they put through those early adventures, do we think how much they've aged? Those kids in 2051 are now in their 30's and probably have kids of their own. I mean to put in 20'th century time it's like some guy who was in the Korean war under Truman was still running around, top of his game when Richard Nixon was the Johnson for a RL shadowrun at the watergate Hotel, and we all know how that run turned out.


Or that the Secret Service agent who took a bullet for Ronald Regan was still A list when W ordered the invasion of Iraq.

Even if you keep in good condition and ok replace who limbs time is going to wear on you. To read James Bond, A 00 agent is retired from that section at age 35. Think of the tech changes in RL. Even using the Reagan guard idea think of the tech he had access to. Then look at your cell phone. phone/texts/playmusic/ access the freaking internet!

I was shopping for my nephew the other week and could call my sister in law from the store to ask if what I was looking at was acceptable. Pay phones?

Compare movie tech-The 1969 models of UFO with the 1977 Models of Star Wars and the CGI action of Independance Day or Iron Man

Am i alone in having this revelation?
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PhishStyx
post Nov 6 2008, 03:17 AM
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Nope, when I picked up my 4th edition Shadowrun book to run my new game, I was immediately struck by the fact that the game has been around for 20 years, and I've been playing it for that long. While I don't have a character from 1st edition, I do have several from 2nd edition starting in about 1991. Moreover, I've retooled them to use as NPC's in my current game in various capacities ranging from Mr. Johnsons to muscle to other fun stuff.
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Blade
post Nov 6 2008, 10:01 AM
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I don't expect my 2nd and 3rd ed characters to be still alive in 2070. I don't expect many runners to run the shadows for more than 5 years.
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sunnyside
post Nov 6 2008, 11:04 AM
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We had a poll a while back and I think more telling is that the players (at least here) are now in their late 20's or 30's and sometimes have kids. :Phttp:

CP2020 already had a supplement where you could play either kiddies affected by some technomancerish thing or the now parents would would have been the edgerunners back in 2020.

Shadowrun complicates things because the elf is hardly aged while the Orc is dead.

However I like the thought of characters being brought back after a time.

For example I've got a buddy from college I used to GM for who always talks about playing online with one of their old characters. I could see aging them forward into 4th ed.

I do figure most runners don't got 20 years full tilt. But many probably get sucked back in when the money runs out, or when the situation calls for it. For example the buddies char had become the legal guardian of a 10 year old girl in the old game. She'd be all grown up now, and could be in some trouble. Time to knock the rust off the trapdoor in the basement where he keeps the goodies.

(From a practical point of view having the character brush the dust off means you don't have to worry about the hundreds of runs they'd have done in that span of time. )
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wusselpompf
post Nov 6 2008, 12:50 PM
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in 2005 there was a german SR-novel called "Altes Eisen" (old irons, http://www.amazon.de/Shadowrun-Altes-Eisen...5591&sr=8-1 ) by Andre Wiesler, dealing exactly with that topic. A bunch of guys who were runners in the 50s and are now "retired". The Author dscribes there further live in a very vibrant and humorous way. And his point is: you can never leave the shadows for good.

gave me some great ideas for PCs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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nezumi
post Nov 6 2008, 12:54 PM
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The only reason any of my characters have survived more than a year is the campaign died early. I should bring back some old PCs of mine as retired Shadowrunners who have become middlemen for their particular area of expertise, though.
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GreyBrother
post Nov 6 2008, 02:34 PM
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My SR3 Otaku switched directly to SR4 Technomancer. Because in 2060 he was like... 13 years old. Now he fears the coming of Fading.

I also played with the idea of porting my old Wolfshifter character (How old was he? kind a... 3 years) but then i realized how old he would be for a Wolf and i just said "screw that", plus although i excelled at playing him, bis background was idiotic at best (shame on me for that) so i thought up something like "His son" but i considered that lame... i retired the character alltogether and made up something completely new in SR4.

Old Concepts, Characters and Ideas i never really played are now my base for NPCs and Connections and i have a little "Tradition" to connect my characters together, IE that they have a common connection (like Haywire, the Decker) or live in the same neighborhood (or district). I always try to make those things as organic as possible.
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Wesley Street
post Nov 6 2008, 03:17 PM
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Funny, I think about that constantly. It makes all that pink mohawk/punk rock attitude stuff from SR1 feel as dated as legwarmers and shirts that hang off one shoulder. Kids from the 2070s probably laugh at pics of kids in the 2050s using their clunky Casio WK500 electric keyboard-sized decks.

"Nice datajacks, grandpa. Do you plug your Sitz bath into those?"
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pbangarth
post Nov 6 2008, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE (sunnyside @ Nov 6 2008, 04:04 AM) *
We had a poll a while back and I think more telling is that the players (at least here) are now in their late 20's or 30's and sometimes have kids. :Phttp:


Hah! My kids are in their 20s.

Peter
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 7 2008, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Nov 6 2008, 10:17 AM) *
Funny, I think about that constantly. It makes all that pink mohawk/punk rock attitude stuff from SR1 feel as dated as legwarmers and shirts that hang off one shoulder. Kids from the 2070s probably laugh at pics of kids in the 2050s using their clunky Casio WK500 electric keyboard-sized decks.

"Nice datajacks, grandpa. Do you plug your Sitz bath into those?"
I think that sums it up wonderfully. I was imagining some 50's greaser trying to be the guy in 1976 without having changed at all, but you nailed it.
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TKDNinjaInBlack
post Nov 7 2008, 03:52 AM
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My major problem that I keep having when trying to visualize the style of the runners and of the mass populace is that when cyberpunk was big in the eighties, it was loaded with tons of pomp and flash of the eighties. Mohawks and leathers to reflect the punk revolution. Neon colors and flashy geometric shapes to reflect the 80's synth and new wave. Not to mention the 80's american obsession with "becoming Japanese." The music in the movies, the look to the clubs, everything fit.

Even in the nineties, Cyberpunk still had counter cultures of industrial rock and grunge music to fall back on. Runners reflected that style through the late 2nd and 3rd edition art and feel of the adventures. We still had the lingering Japanese superiority complex and mohawk and leather feel because they still kind of translated into the industrial and grunge cultures. There was still a home for the things that really were cyberpunk.

But now, we have rap and hip hop culture in the mainstream and our counter culture is post-rock and emo trash. It doesn't really fit with anything that was cyberpunk-ish at all. But this is where I have the problem. There was a reason cyberpunk (Shadowrun more importantly) resembles the time period it came out of. Sci Fi inherently reflects when it was created. So, as our world evolves, the styles and fashions should reflect and almost parody what's going on IRL. I can imagine a bunch of "thug bad mutha fragga runners" stepping out of their lowered pimped ride sporting their bling. It's not a pretty thought, but it's one that according to how things have worked in the past, should be done now.

That old generation of runners that were chrome leather and green mohawks just don't understand what's with the kids these days and their orxploitation rap, their blinged gear and pimped vehicles. They just don't have the class of the previous running generation, probably have an entirely different etiquette, and probably don't stand for any of the same ideas or stand against any of the same ideas.
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masterofm
post Nov 7 2008, 05:26 AM
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You can pimp your ride out... thanks Arsenal... <.<

I like the fact that you can play both sides of the coin in Shadowrun now. You can do pink mo-hawk or black trench coat, but in the end it's not hard to see the trends that SR has made... and yet at the same time there is tech that we have now that is better then the tech in the "future." Se la vi.
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crash2029
post Nov 7 2008, 05:42 AM
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I have a character who was a 'runner in the 50's who is still alive and 'running in the 70's. He took an enforved vacation for most of the sixties. So now he basically had to start over and has to deal with current guttertrash who think some old guy is just going to bog them down. It is fun to play the dichotomy of his era and how it shaped him versus the current runner scene.
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 7 2008, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (masterofm @ Nov 7 2008, 12:26 AM) *
You can pimp your ride out... thanks Arsenal... <.<

I like the fact that you can play both sides of the coin in Shadowrun now. You can do pink mo-hawk or black trench coat, but in the end it's not hard to see the trends that SR has made... and yet at the same time there is tech that we have now that is better then the tech in the "future." Se la vi.

I'm glad you said that because I'm more the black trench coat style.

The 80's wasn't just the pink mohawks, think of Don Jonson in pastel suit jackets and t-shirts in Miami Vice.

And the frightening thing from 1950 to 2008, 2051 to 2070 there are still guys in hawiian shirts
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sunnyside
post Nov 7 2008, 12:51 PM
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Actually I wonder how much credit we should give the 2050 crowd for adapting. Technoshock was always supposed to be part of cyberpunk but in SR and other post cyberpunkish settings it's generally ignored. Assuming people roll with the developments.

So have they kept rolling into the 2070s? IS there still a "too old for the club" kinda feeling or do we figure the baby boomers or later generations have already paved the way for walkers in the mosh pit.

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Snow_Fox
post Nov 7 2008, 01:47 PM
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I think the VERY best have their edge but those who ae not up to that level have retired or died. I mean in a shoto out some guy with 2051 wired reflexes was the fastest best then, but then they come up against some kid with wired reflexes. The new tech will be faster so only the absolute best thinkers will be able to compensate. The straight muscle types will be long gone
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TKDNinjaInBlack
post Nov 7 2008, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 7 2008, 06:46 AM) *
I'm glad you said that because I'm more the black trench coat style.

The 80's wasn't just the pink mohawks, think of Don Jonson in pastel suit jackets and t-shirts in Miami Vice.

And the frightening thing from 1950 to 2008, 2051 to 2070 there are still guys in hawiian shirts



The black trench coat style is a style that followed the Matrix and some of the other late 90s industrial and big beat techno influences in SciFi. Take a long look at the visual styles of sci-fi between the early 90's and sci-fi movies post Matrix. You'll see that there is a huge jump/change from gritty mechanical/industrial into sleek form fitting leather catsuit/long black trench coat solid matte color schemes. Personally, I think the Matrix ruined cyberpunk style.

I was lumping the Don Johnson overly pastel mid 80's Miami feel in with the new wave statement I made. They go hand in hand.

And yes, hawaiian shirts will never go out of style.
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 7 2008, 01:52 PM
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True, Matrix wasa real sea change for sci fi, but in the long coat you can look back to Harrison Ford in bladerunner with his rumpled trench coat, a link between Nemo and Sam Spade.

it's sort of a timeless look. Similarly the look in GitS/SAC, especially in 2nd gig and Solid State Society where the men's fashions as well have a rumbled but eternal look.
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Blade
post Nov 7 2008, 01:54 PM
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I agree that the Matrix affected the cyberpunk style, and arguably in a bad way. But Deckard did have a trenchoat, and you don't get much more 80s cyberpunk than that.

EDIT: Fixed, thanks to Snow Fox.
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Fuchs
post Nov 7 2008, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 7 2008, 02:47 PM) *
I think the VERY best have their edge but those who ae not up to that level have retired or died. I mean in a shoto out some guy with 2051 wired reflexes was the fastest best then, but then they come up against some kid with wired reflexes. The new tech will be faster so only the absolute best thinkers will be able to compensate. The straight muscle types will be long gone


We played long campaigns, and the characters adapted to the effective SOTA - each new book brought changes to the gear list. I don't see many problem with samurais keeping up with the times, changing and updating their 'ware. What stops them will be death, but that is kind of countered with edge.
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Wesley Street
post Nov 7 2008, 01:59 PM
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I'd argue that the Matrix was more of a goth/transhumanist movie than cyberpunk. Lots of leather fetishism and ridiculous (while still cool-looking) acrobatics. Traditionally (post)cyberpunk was more about survival and The Chase rather than war or superheroics.
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 7 2008, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (Blade @ Nov 7 2008, 08:54 AM) *
I agree that the Matrix affected the cyberpunk style, and arguably in a bad way. But Deckard did have a trenchoat, and you don't get much more 90s cyberpunk than that.

yeah, but it was in the 1980's. hense the timelessness
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nezumi
post Nov 7 2008, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 7 2008, 08:47 AM) *
The straight muscle types will be long gone


Or will be pumping drugs.
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Fuchs
post Nov 7 2008, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 7 2008, 03:00 PM) *
Or will be pumping drugs.


Or have upgraded to the latest 'ware (and used the rest of the SR3-ish payouts for leonisation).
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masterofm
post Nov 7 2008, 02:17 PM
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To me I view that there would be large generational gaps in the SR setting considering how quickly the technology has advanced in the game world, but look at our society today. Because of how quickly technology advances there is a style or fad change every ten years.

I think the interesting thing is that runners who have retired might have had to get back into the game because of the matrix crashes (where they lost everything.) I mean think about it. What runners carry all their money around on certified cred sticks? Everything goes to hell and they are back to square one trying to build back the life they once had. I also like the whole "Dammit! You mean I have to poke my head into the shadows again? I'm getting way to old for this sh*t!"
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