IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

13 Pages V  « < 7 8 9 10 11 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Fortune
post Nov 27 2008, 07:16 PM
Post #201


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



The right to bear arms was not implemented solely for the purpose of repelling foreign invaders.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chrysalis
post Nov 27 2008, 07:28 PM
Post #202


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,141
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Neverwhere
Member No.: 2,048



There is nothing in the United States except for the politics of America to be fought over. It has an antiquated infrastructure, very little worthwhile natural resources and it's education system needs serious updating and has the worst health care system among any of the OECD countries.

The 2005 U.S. military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's defense spending combined and is over eight times larger than the official military budget of China. (Note that this comparison is done in nominal value US dollars and thus is adjusted for purchasing power parity.) The United States and its close allies are responsible for about two-thirds of the world's military spending (of which, in turn, the U.S. is responsible for the majority). In 2007, US military spending was above 1/4 of combined industrial and agricultural production in the USA.


Outside of the concept of God, America, and mom's apple pie. I don't see how anyone would want to invade the United States because they would have to repair 50 years worth of neglect. The United States is just not worth invading.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Nov 27 2008, 07:37 PM
Post #203


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



I'm already in a bad mood, so, hey, why not?

QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Nov 27 2008, 02:01 PM) *
Oh good grief. The basic liberties WERE, very past tense, secured by arms. An armed electorate, in the day and time in which the founding fathers made provisions for it, was a free electorate. Sorry, but that is a thing of the past. There are no foreign invaders that will swamp the country if Joe Beergutt doesn't hold them off with his fully converted Armalite semi automatic rifle. The right to bear arms was designed to be a last line defense. Today, if it gets to an invasion by a foreign power strong enough to be a threat to more than, say, the Conch Republic (Key West Florida to you heathens) then the last thing that they will need to be worried about is Mr Beergutt and his fabulous abilities to defend his nation with the gun he is more liable to shoot himself or his neighbors with than anyone else.

Funny how the open minded, progressive, Europeans can't help but stereotype and insult to try and make a point. I thought you guys were supposed to be all sophisticated and erudite and whatnot. Why the need to resort to namecalling?

I'm sorry things went so poorly for your country the last time you took up arms in any meaningful fashion (whoops!), but that's not our fault, it was yours. You might hold riflemen in low regard, but others know better. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself to feel better about being a disarmed subject rather than an armed citizen, but don't expect us to listen, because we know you don't really know what you're talking about.

Oh, and speaking of WWII: "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. I guess you know more than some silly Japanese guy, though, right? I mean, you're one of the most powerful military officials in your Axis country, right...right? Aww, you're not. Well, nevermind, then. It's not like there are several times as many guns in the hands of American citizens today as there were at the time the comment was made anyways, right (HINT: wrong!).

It never ceases to amaze me how in one breath Europeans can butt in and try to tell Americans how dangerous all our guns are, and how many we have, and how powerful they are, and how many people they can kill efficiently and quickly (and rant hysterically about how you couldn't possibly "need" a gun that powerful for any good reason, as if "need" has anything to do with having a right to own something)...and in the next breath, they'll casually dismiss those same millions of firearms and insist that they're worthless for defense of yourself and your community.

Which is it? Are all our big, nasty, American guns the most dangerous weapons (oh noes, "assault rifles!") in the world, liable to go off at any second and murder a whole city block by themselves...or are they magically unable to hurt an infantryman? You can't have it both ways. Either they're dangerous enough they need to be controlled, or they're weak enough no one has to be scared of them. You're wrong either way, but at least pick just one argument and stick with it.
QUOTE
Outside of the concept of God, America, and mom's apple pie. I don't see how anyone would want to invade the United States because they would have to repair 50 years worth of neglect. The United States is just not worth invading.

Well, I'm sure glad you feel that way. I was all set to lose some sleep, worrying Finland was on the way to put us in our place. It must be nice to hang out in the most sparsely populated country in the European Union and have fun pointing out what someone else's country is doing wrong. Finland's got almost the same population as Atlanta, though, so I'm sure you've got all sorts of keen political insight and you can tell us how America's not doing things the right way.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cantankerous
post Nov 27 2008, 07:53 PM
Post #204


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 404
Joined: 17-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,905



Critias old boy, I am an American. Not only am I an American I am a former US Marine. Not only a former US Marine but a medically discharged Purple Heart bearing US Marine.

I love my country. There have been a few advances in weaponry since WW2 bubby. Like a Nuclear Arsenal powerful enough to sterilize the globe several times over and orders of magnitude more capable of defending the nation than every guy with a gun he doesn't know which end of fires the bullet.


Isshia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shrapnel
post Nov 27 2008, 08:26 PM
Post #205


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: 28-November 04
Member No.: 6,852



QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Nov 27 2008, 03:53 PM) *
Critias old boy, I am an American. Not only am I an American I am a former US Marine. Not only a former US Marine but a medically discharged Purple Heart bearing US Marine.

I love my country. There have been a few advances in weaponry since WW2 bubby. Like a Nuclear Arsenal powerful enough to sterilize the globe several times over and orders of magnitude more capable of defending the nation than every guy with a gun he doesn't know which end of fires the bullet.


Isshia


Where did you come up with the misconception that nobody in America knows how to use a firearm? You've repeated this statement twice now.

Most of the firearm owners I know are VERY proficient with their firearms, and practice quite frequently. I fail to see where you derive your claims of "Mr Beergutt and his fabulous abilities to defend his nation with the gun he is more liable to shoot himself or his neighbors with than anyone else" and "a gun he doesn't know which end of fires the bullet".

Care to provide any insight on where you acquired this opinion?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Nov 27 2008, 08:48 PM
Post #206


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,640
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



LOL Any Rand.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Ayn_Rand1.jpg
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chrysalis
post Nov 27 2008, 09:10 PM
Post #207


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,141
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Neverwhere
Member No.: 2,048



QUOTE (Critias @ Nov 27 2008, 09:37 PM) *
Well, I'm sure glad you feel that way. I was all set to lose some sleep, worrying Finland was on the way to put us in our place. It must be nice to hang out in the most sparsely populated country in the European Union and have fun pointing out what someone else's country is doing wrong. Finland's got almost the same population as Atlanta, though, so I'm sure you've got all sorts of keen political insight and you can tell us how America's not doing things the right way.


And yet Finland for fifty years had to carefully step between both the United States and the Soviet Union who liked to think of Finland as either their backyard or as a welcome mat. It is easy to point how things are wrong. Finland has its own share of problems. From 1995 it has turned itself into a market economy and unfortunately it has fifty years of corporate legislation that still thinks its under the Cold War economic system.

I was simply saying that the United States in all its vainglory is not worth invading, because there is nothing worth invading for that cannot be achieved through other means.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Nov 27 2008, 09:24 PM
Post #208


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,640
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



If I had unlimited money I'd buy a tropical island somewhere, build a MMA cage, and give away plane tickets to arguing people on the internet so that they could have no holds barred matches in the middle of nowhere. I'd also video record the NHB fights and host them on a web page for the internet as a whole to see and comment on. You have to admit it would make internet forum arguments freaking awesome.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AngelisStorm
post Nov 27 2008, 09:32 PM
Post #209


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 616
Joined: 30-April 07
From: Edge of the Redmond Barrens, Borderline NAN. Runnin' the border for literal milk runs.
Member No.: 11,565



QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Nov 27 2008, 02:01 PM) *
the Conch Republic (Key West Florida to you heathens)


Who are you calling a Heathen? The Conch Republic will live on!

And on (Another) serious note, a bunch of individuals have been doing a pretty decent job of repelling the 'invaders' in Iraq. And they are fighting one of those big countries with nuclear arsenals.

Yes Warlordtheft, I do believe the answer from alot of Americans is yes. "the real question an American should ask himself/herself is does he still believe that death is prefereable to oppression and tyranny as Patrick Henry espoused."

Americans are like Hobbits. Leave us the hell alone, and we'll happily eat and watch television. Screw with our rights or lifestyle, and watch out.

The problem with "gun control" is that in most cases it is simply a politically correct way to say "ban guns." The people in this country who are pro gun control (a large majority of the time) just want to ban guns outright, but they know they have to do it a bit at a time. I don't know a single gun owner who is in favor of REASONABLE gun control. The NRA (The National Riflesman Association for non Americans) is in favor of reasonable gun control, and it's the main gun lobby in the country.

It's the "who watches the watchers" situation. If you try to limit guns, who gets to decide this limit? Who gets to decide who is fit, and who isn't? Hawaii is a "May Issue" state with regards to concealed weapon permits. It does not issue however (to anyone) with the exception of a tiny handful of token permits. That is one very relevant example of what happens when the goverment can "control" guns without strict rules on who they will and will not issue permits to.

Edit: That is awsome Ronin. Make it near Key West, so when they become the Conch republic, it can be one of their major industries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cantankerous
post Nov 27 2008, 09:59 PM
Post #210


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 404
Joined: 17-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,905



QUOTE (Shrapnel @ Nov 27 2008, 09:26 PM) *
Where did you come up with the misconception that nobody in America knows how to use a firearm? You've repeated this statement twice now.

Most of the firearm owners I know are VERY proficient with their firearms, and practice quite frequently. I fail to see where you derive your claims of "Mr Beergutt and his fabulous abilities to defend his nation with the gun he is more liable to shoot himself or his neighbors with than anyone else" and "a gun he doesn't know which end of fires the bullet".

Care to provide any insight on where you acquired this opinion?


Sure, at the gun ranges, where yahoos more than once came near, in heavily divided areas, to actually shooting other people accidentally. And hey, most "gun owners" do not go to ranges, do not practice even basic gun safety and from what I saw on many (albeit not all by ANY means) cases it would have been safer being the target than being in the next stall with morons around.

Hey RESPONSIBLE gun owners I have no issues with. I simply have seen, in my experience, that they are a minority.

Look guys, I do NOT believe that all people should be excluded from gun ownership, but rather that it should be ATLEAST as hard to get a gun license as a drivers license.


Isshia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cantankerous
post Nov 27 2008, 10:16 PM
Post #211


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 404
Joined: 17-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,905



QUOTE
Who are you calling a Heathen?


Anyone who isn't a friend of the mighty Conch! I lived upstate but had many a friend and acquaintance who blew the conch! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Anyway, before this is misrepresented, I was a "gun owner" and taught my son gun safety long before I ever let him shoot one. I simply hold issue with what was, at least at the time, the ease with which a person could grab a rifle capable of killing a bull at 1000 yards from a pawn shop, on a whim, and get the ammo for it and go out pot shooting with it, all in the same day.

This isn't about responsible ownership, this is about idiots, like the ones you see on youtube (who seem to me to be allot closer to the average than you are letting on) who are running around with guns they know shite all about, knocking themselves on their keisters or nearly shooting themselves with while other morons capture their stupidity for posterity. THOSE people should definitively be required to put ATLEAST as much effort into obtaining the licenses to operate a gun as to operate a motor vehicle, an iten who's primary motility ISN'T to put holes into others.


Isshia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Platinum Dragon
post Nov 28 2008, 01:26 AM
Post #212


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: 30-July 08
Member No.: 16,176



QUOTE (Shrapnel @ Nov 27 2008, 06:22 PM) *
I do realize that my statement was rather harsh, and this implication was not the desire of my post. It was more a matter of trying to express the frustration I feel towards the current political climate in general, and specifically towards watching my once proud nation get torn apart from within.

Atlas Shrugged happens to be one of my favorite novels, and I see some rather startling coincidences between the novel and the current political arena. I've seen a definite push towards legalized plunder and all-out socialism. I happen to be a firm believer in the ideals that this country was founded on, not what it currently represents. A large part of these original ideals was that all men should be responsible for their own actions, and provide for their own family's needs. There was also a responsibility to protect your family, your community, and your country. All I've seen lately is a push to take away the freedoms that give us the ability to provide for and protect ourselves, and instead force us to rely on the government to provide for us.

This is a personal issue between myself and my country, and I apologize for taking this out on you unnecessarily. However, I do not feel that it is your place to tell me that I should not have these freedoms that I hold so dear, just because you yourself do not possess them, and do not feel a need for them. If you are happy with your current system of government, I am happy for you. All that I ask is that you stop trying to change mine.

I do understand that this sentiment goes both ways, and am by no means a supporter of the US' current policy of being the World Police. Nor am I a fan of the United Nations trying to step in and fill that same role. I am what you could consider an Isolationist, and firmly believe that all nations should be allowed to do as they please, as long as they are not harming or infringing upon any other nation's freedom. I am a firm believer in sovereign territory, and wish that is still meant what it once used to.

We differ in opinion on this, particularly: isolation is no longer possible in the way it once used to be, and I believe that we should be striving towards a more global community. It's why patriotism irks me so much - draw borders between people and they will be prideful of them, and fight over them.

QUOTE (Shrapnel @ Nov 27 2008, 06:22 PM) *
Nowadays, rather than let countries govern themselves, and let people live their own lives, we all feel the need to meddle in other people's affairs. I understand the desire to help others, but it has long since devolved past the point of helping others, and is now fully in the realm of controlling others. This I do not agree with, and feel that it is the duty of everybody, not just US citizens, to fight against oppression.

But now we're back to the original argument regarding gun control, and the right to bear arms. How do you fight oppression if you have no weapons to fight with? Sure, you can form peaceable demonstrations, and trust in your democracy to return balance and order. You can also trust in the benevolence of your current government officials, and hope that they truly represent your interests. But what do you do when Democracy fails, and your government officials no longer represent the will of the people? How do you restore justice? What options do you have?

We are encroaching on a realm of possibility that most people are afraid to speak of, and many refuse to acknowledge. Yet the possibility is still there, and we must be prepared for it. Yet how can we be prepared if our very government takes away the only tools we have to protect and provide for our families and loved ones? How can we be prepared to fight against all enemies, foreign and domestic, if we no longer have the means or the will to wage war?

Why must it always be about enemies and fighting? Why must you wage war in the first place? No-one wants to invade america, so you hardly need to be able to defend against extraterritorial 'threats,' and are you really so paranoid that you think that one of your presidents - people who, almost universally, enter politics in the first place because they love the US and want to further their nation - are going to usurp the government and opress the people? Even if one or two people did end up in government for the wrong reasons (and they do), there are so many other people there because of their ideals that it would be literally impossible for them to suddenly turn the USA into a dictatorship. Taking a mentality of conflict rather than cooperation only causes other people to do the same.

QUOTE (Shrapnel @ Nov 27 2008, 06:22 PM) *
The Founding Fathers of the United States had already seen all of this, and did everything they could to help prevent us from becoming helpless. It seems to me that this country was founded on the idea that people should be self-reliant, not beholden to their government, and this is why I hold these original ideals so dearly. Your country might not share the same ideals as mine, but please understand that this is the reason we founded our own country in the first place.

Freedom, dear friends, is the most important thing in life. As long as your freedom does not hinder or harm anyone else, what is there to worry about?

That idea is flawed though. Not everyone can be self-reliant all the time, particualrly in the free-market economy that your country's policies have encouraged. Ultimate freedom includes the freedom to harm others; by subsrcibing to the ideal of 'an it harm none, do what thou wilt,' you have already willfully given up some basic freedoms, indicating that freedom is not, in fact, the most important thing in life. By giving up the freedom to harm others, and expecting others to give up that freedom as well, you demonstrate that you think safety is the most important thing. Levying higher taxes on the rich and giving tax breaks to the poor, while using the extra money gained to provide better healthcare and schooling would likely make your county a better place to live, but all the people who enjoy having the freedom to profit outrageously while others die homeless resist that change. And Australia isn't much better, I'll admit. I just wish people in the 'west' would realise that a certain amount of regulation by the government is a welcome thing, as it improves the quality of life for all but the upper-classes, and they have it too good anyway.

QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Nov 28 2008, 08:24 AM) *
If I had unlimited money I'd buy a tropical island somewhere, build a MMA cage, and give away plane tickets to arguing people on the internet so that they could have no holds barred matches in the middle of nowhere. I'd also video record the NHB fights and host them on a web page for the internet as a whole to see and comment on. You have to admit it would make internet forum arguments freaking awesome.

Well, yeah.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shrapnel
post Nov 28 2008, 01:38 AM
Post #213


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: 28-November 04
Member No.: 6,852



QUOTE (Platinum Dragon @ Nov 27 2008, 08:26 PM) *
By giving up the freedom to harm others, and expecting others to give up that freedom as well, you demonstrate that you think safety is the most important thing.


We've never had the freedom to harm others, as that infringes on their personal freedom. We do, however, occasionally have a responsibility to harm others...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Platinum Dragon
post Nov 28 2008, 02:16 AM
Post #214


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: 30-July 08
Member No.: 16,176



QUOTE (Shrapnel @ Nov 28 2008, 12:38 PM) *
We've never had the freedom to harm others, as that infringes on their personal freedom. We do, however, occasionally have a responsibility to harm others...

Being harmed in no way infringes upon my freedoms. A freedom describes only what you are allowed to do, not what others are not allowed to do. There is no such thing as a 'freedom to not be hurt by people.' There is a right to live unmolested, a right that infringes upon other people's freedoms, I might add.

As for having a responsibility to harm otehrs, I disagree. While I do agree that violence can occasionally be justified (such as in self-defense), I do not believe that the responsibility is specifically to harm others, so much as it is to protect others who might be harmed. Sometimes that will involve violence, and other times it may not need to. By changing the focus of the phrase, you change the way people think about and react to it, and avoiding harm to others, even when they are the agressor, should be of utmost importance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Snow_Fox
post Nov 28 2008, 02:52 AM
Post #215


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,577
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Gwynedd Valley PA
Member No.: 1,221



QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Nov 27 2008, 04:59 PM) *
Sure, at the gun ranges, where yahoos more than once came near, in heavily divided areas, to actually shooting other people accidentally. And hey, most "gun owners" do not go to ranges, do not practice even basic gun safety and from what I saw on many (albeit not all by ANY means) cases it would have been safer being the target than being in the next stall with morons around.

Hey RESPONSIBLE gun owners I have no issues with. I simply have seen, in my experience, that they are a minority.

Look guys, I do NOT believe that all people should be excluded from gun ownership, but rather that it should be ATLEAST as hard to get a gun license as a drivers license.


Isshia
I'll pick up what others have asked, can you site proof? also as you give your location as austria it seems a little off for you to say how Americans behave at gun ranges. I regularly keep my hand in and have never once seen anythnig like you discribe and I'm on the edge of freaking rural Pennsylvania where there are a lot of gun owners.

About 15 miles South of where Mel Gibson and M Night Shamalan made "Signs" and the audiences here were pretty contremptous of a farmer in this region that didn't even have a gun for varmits.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Captian C-Bucks
post Nov 28 2008, 03:30 AM
Post #216


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,929



QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 28 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I'll pick up what others have asked, can you site proof? also as you give your location as austria it seems a little off for you to say how Americans behave at gun ranges.

Sorry, son in law of "Isshia" here. Yep, he grew up in Florida and has been a Marine, he just moved over for personal reasons. Lets just say he has seen his share of American Gunnuts.
Let me just, as a neutral bystander- in a neutral country- say that theres few things America is better known for over here than its irresponsible use for firearms. The "facts" that Michael Moore brings up in his "documentations" might not all be true, but we kinda get the news over here, of people that shoot for the fun of it, or another arms-fight in new york city.
It might be that the international press is trying to put America in a bad light here, but I personally find it unlikely. Of course there are more responsible gunuseres over there -otherwise the whole country would´ve died out over there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . - But a lot of Americans seem to think that the RIGHT to own a gun is equivalent with the DUTY to own one..

Peter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Nov 28 2008, 04:07 AM
Post #217


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



I know lots of non-American people who 'shoot for the fun of it'.

As for shootings, three out of the last seven school shootings I have heard about were in Europe (2 in Finland and 1 in Germany).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kzt
post Nov 28 2008, 04:30 AM
Post #218


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,537
Joined: 27-August 06
From: Albuquerque NM
Member No.: 9,234



In Austria the bad guys just kidnap girls (or their daughters) off the street and rape them for a decade or two, with nobody thinking anything of it. "He was SUCH a nice man. But I always wondered about the naked girl he kept chained up in the back yard...." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Captian C-Bucks
post Nov 28 2008, 04:37 AM
Post #219


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,929



QUOTE (kzt @ Nov 28 2008, 06:30 AM) *
In Austria the bad guys just kidnap girls (or their daughters) off the street and rape them for a decade or two, with nobody thinking anything of it. "He was SUCH a nice man. But I always wondered about the naked girl he kept chained up in the back yard...." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


funny? nope...
out of 8 million people, of course you have a psychopath sooner or later.. but thats the best you can bring up?! 1 guy? ... i cant even put it in words how easy it seems to be to influence you. by the way.. it was the cellar, not the back yard.. do your research before you run your mouth!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Captian C-Bucks
post Nov 28 2008, 04:42 AM
Post #220


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,929



QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 28 2008, 06:07 AM) *
I know lots of non-American people who 'shoot for the fun of it'.

As for shootings, three out of the last seven school shootings I have heard about were in Europe (2 in Finland and 1 in Germany).


not doubting a word your saying, europe is far from perfect too. But one thing you can say - that over here.. in Austria, Finland or Germany it is a lot harder to get a gun than in the U.S.A. But you know, thats still only 3 out of 7.. which is the minority..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Nov 28 2008, 04:46 AM
Post #221


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



That's partly my point. It's supposedly much more difficult to get a firearm in Europe (a point brought up numerous times in this thread), and yet still almost half of the last seven school shootings have occurred there. Seems to me that too much fuss is being made of your gun control laws.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Platinum Dragon
post Nov 28 2008, 04:52 AM
Post #222


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 265
Joined: 30-July 08
Member No.: 16,176



QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 28 2008, 03:46 PM) *
That's partly my point. It's supposedly much more difficult to get a firearm in Europe (a point brought up numerous times in this thread), and yet still almost half of the last seven school shootings have occurred there. Seems to me that too much fuss is being made of your gun control laws.

I have to wonder, were the other four all within the US? The USA is one country, Europe is, like, 50 of them. =P

As for wether gun control will have an affect on mass shootings, I'll point out again that there were 13 mass shootings in 18 years before the gun ban in Australia, and there have been none since.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Captian C-Bucks
post Nov 28 2008, 04:52 AM
Post #223


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,929



QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 28 2008, 06:46 AM) *
That's partly my point. It's supposedly much more difficult to get a firearm in Europe (a point brought up numerous times in this thread), and yet still almost half of the last seven school shootings have occurred there. Seems to me that too much fuss is being made of your gun control laws.


What I can really tell you with my degree of education, and my age (18) is that I have never heard/seen or spoke with a person that fired a firearm outside the Military in my life (besides cantankerous). Which means there are far less firearms.. The Crimerate´s of violent crimes are a LOT lower - and maybe there´s school shootings yes - but those happen in countries that currently undergo heavy problems with their youth. Theres a simple logic in saying that the easier it is to get firearms - the easier it is for psychopaths/idiots to get them - I think theres not much doubt about that - and THATS the main point of this discussion as far as I gathered.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fortune
post Nov 28 2008, 05:05 AM
Post #224


Immoral Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 15,247
Joined: 29-March 02
From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat
Member No.: 2,486



QUOTE (Platinum Dragon @ Nov 28 2008, 03:52 PM) *
I have to wonder, were the other four all within the US? The USA is one country, Europe is, like, 50 of them.


Fifty, eh? If you say so.

Fair enough though ... let's compare one country to another. Finland has had two school shootings out of the last seven. That is over a quarter of those incidents, but their population (last I head about 5.25 million) is much lower than the U.S (at about 300 million). And they are supposed to have strict gun laws to prevent this type of thing.

QUOTE
As for wether gun control will have an affect on mass shootings, I'll point out again that there were 13 mass shootings in 18 years before the gun ban in Australia, and there have been none since.


I guess that depends on your definition of 'mass shooting'. If the definition is more than one victim, then I call bullshit, as there have been numerous incidents of multiple victim shootings in Oz in the last few years since the gun ban.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Captian C-Bucks
post Nov 28 2008, 05:07 AM
Post #225


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 15,929



QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 28 2008, 07:05 AM) *
Fifty, eh? If you say so.



47 to be precise.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


and europe total has (according to Wikipedia) 731 Million... 3 out of 7 then... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) with double the inhabitants.. thats not bad i´d say.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

13 Pages V  « < 7 8 9 10 11 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th May 2025 - 12:17 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.