As far as I know, yes. But you cannot kill a motorcycle with one.

I could be wrong.

You can't kill a motorcycle with a manabolt, either. Anything you can target with a manabolt, you can target with a stunbolt.

If the motorcycle is going through a high speed turn and you stunbolt the driver, yes, you can kill a motorcycle with a stunbolt. You can also kill a parked motorcycle with a stunbolt. If you hit the truck-driver heading towards it.

Otherwise, no. Mana spells don't target non-living/awakened/spectral targets.

But Powerbolt yes? I meant powerbolt.

/me slows down on the pirat.

Powerbolt, yes. However, powerbolt has a higher Drain. Additionally, it's resisted with Body, which is generally higher than Willpower (especially in the case of Orks and Trolls). You're better off with stunbolt.

This is especially true with Stick and shock. If I was going to ban an ammo type it would be this. If you don't actually need people dead it's the best way to go. The Electricity is just crazy overpowered (har har). First you have to resists or jiggle for a number out rounds (not IP). If you /do resist/ you still get a penalty. Electronics, read drones, just fry at GM discretion. And -1/2 AP is usually better than even AP rounds. It's also a mundanes best chance for shooting a spirit.

.... ex-ex isn't what I'm worried about.

SnS is among the best options if you need someone dead too - get them down, then cap the unconscious, twitching target with a lead bullet to the head from your sidearm at "pressed muzzle to skull" range.

Yup SnS is brutal, but often the point of a gun is making someone dead without getting into "pressed muzzle to skull" range. On the flip side I've never had a moment where I though "damn! I loaded SnS" or on the flip side as a GM though "Ha the fools they brought SnS! there mine!".

I'm a big believer in Manaball, actually. I had a character that used Manaball as his only AOE effect for years. He did have Stunbolt as his primary single-target, but he also started the game with only gel rounds, narcoject, & other non-lethals.

Why manaball instead of stunball?

It relies on the GM making people react appropriately. We determined that stun spells don't have too much of a visible kick to them - people just pass out, or at best get bruises. Manabolt and manaball, on the other hand, kill you - so people cough up blood, bones break, skin cracks and splits, etc. Doing that to a big group of people would often cause others enemies to roll those professional rating dice to see if they REALLY wanted to stick around and fight, or if the guy who just wasted four guys by exsanguinating them wasn't worth it.

Also, on a more mechanical level, a guy with an auto-injector/biomonitor/stim chem combo made my life living hell when I tried to stun bolt him down. I finally just hosed him down with an assault rifle. And also, it seems a better bang-for-buck than Ball Lightning or Powerball.

That's the reason I took Lightning Bolt. If you need to deal with pesky drones... use an industrial grade bug zapper.

Off Topic, what do you guys think of this spread of Offensive spells: Lightning Bolt, Manaball, Stunbolt

Well, you could also just take someone down with SnS, then headshot them from afar with another gun - it's not as if they can dodge while unconscious. Dual-feed magazines might make this even easier.

Well, that certainly is a way to handle it and I see that it makes regular ammo superfluous. On that account, you could then drop all but the best SMG, though. Armored vests as well, the jacket is better. Why regular knifes, there's cougar blades. I realize those examples are quite over the top, I just want to emphasize that any line drawn as to what would "reasonably" be used feels quite arbitrary.

I just think having all those "worse" choices is good for the game even (and especially when) the PCs never take them. That may just be a different style of play, though. Most regular mook the runners in the games I'm in encounter are quite a bit worse individually, and having all that "bad" stuff helps with that. To each his own, I guess.

Here's another thing about those regular choices... they are what's normally available. I mean you can't just go into the local gun shop and pick explosive ammo. Now regular bullets... not only can you find it, you'll even get a "Thank You" from the counter monkey manning the shop.

Med packs are the same way. I can easily see going into a shop that sell those kind of items and getting a rating 3 or 4 kit easy. Rating 6 is more like paramedic or professional kit rather than a normal slot walking in from off the street.

true true, I forgot about that mod as I never seem to have the slots for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)
SnS is brutal. But the best load out in every situation.

If your characters are using nothing but Ex ammo then they've got way too much money on their hands, give them a dry streak so that they start worrying about making rent...

To paraphrase the de facto leader of my PC's group: "What the hell are you doing loading that stuff into an assault rifle anyway? Single shots, save money, geeze!"

Turns out that in my game, letting the players find a few mags of APDS or other expensive ammo is like tossing them some magical arrows in DnD. They'll use them when they're needed, but they'll hate using 'em (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I see the stick and shock come out not versus metahumanity but against Spirits. Long range, no special weapon skill elemental effect.

SnS is banned from anything but shotguns in my game. We have been working on a lower power SnS for smaller weapons. As a note, we don't play with any of the taser like weapons either.

Just shoot them again with another round or two of SNS and overflow from stun to physical.

Stick n' Shock is one ammo type that I did house-rule, because I have to agree that it's disgusting.
Generally I just lower the power to 4. It's still really good, especially in light pistols, but not as overwhelming.

It also falls under a general house-rule I tend to use, which is to say that any ammunition resisted with Impact armour is subsonic (when you think about the logic of impact vs ballistic armour, this makes a lot of sense really), and so cannot be used in weapons with ranges above those of a shotgun or SMG (the wording is intentionally vague here; my house rules are always RAI, not RAW).

Part of the problem is the velocity of the round (I find it hard to believe a chunk of "gel" going at supersonic speeds wouldn't just tear into someone anyway), the other problem is the size; rifles tend to fire a smaller projectile at higher speeds. Great when firing a chunk of lead, less great when firing a capsule that's supposed to deliver a dose of a chemical (in fact I'm tempted to call Capsule rounds Shotgun only), or a little capacitor that shocks the target. I mean a Barett .50 will put a round clean through a brick wall from a mile away. How does the little stick-n-shock fly all that distance, at that kind of speed, and then suddenly stop when it gets to the target?

Part of why I like this rule is that suddenly SMGs and Shotguns become much more important. If the Runner's are going for a kill, assault rifles are awesome, but if they want to keep the bodycount / collateral damage down then SMGs are clearly the way to go. It also deals with a lot of the afforementioned problems with non-lethal ammo edging out the lethal options, since the non-lethal choices now limit your choice of weapon, meaning that there are some clear trade-offs involved.

Sorry, i guess i just misunderstood you.
If it is a plausible ingame response, of course it's a perfectly valid choice to upgrade secguard armor in this way.



Now that you mention, i actually have two characters that use only regular ammo for monetary reasons.
Both are mages, don't have any firearms skill (i didn't have points for that left and it seemed reasonable that they wouldn't bother learning how to be mediocre at shooting people when they allready where experts at killing them with their brain).
Still, i didn't want to send them on runs without a gun.
This way, they wouldn't stick out as mages (and therefor become primary targets) by being the unarmed members of a well-armed runner team and they could use the guns for stuff like intimidation and the like.
In case they had to give a warning shot, shoot somebody in the head or whatever, i decided that regular ammo would be enough.
Plus, i didn't risk gun explosions due to glitches, which are not that unlikely if you have to default.



Certainly, but there are people who simply cannot be a serious threat to runners (except through sheer cunning and luck).
If i generate a PC who's a professional with SMGs, he's gonna get an FN 93.
The same holds true when i stat out an elite response team- they'll get the tools necessary for their job (unless they suffer from massive budget restraints).
But if i, as a GM, stat out a bunch of gangers and decide to give them SMGs, they're likely to get the crappy Sandler TMP because that will be a gun they actually can afford.
Similarly, people with low lifestyles will rarely sport a R6 emotoy- they may have gotten a discount model for a hundred bucks.

Of course, this means that they have a serious disadvantage against the runners.
But then, they shouldn't be able to compete with them anyways.




To each his own, but if your players can't afford a box of explosive ammo, how do your sams upgrade their cyberware?
How do your riggers replace drones that get thrashed?
Doesn't this lead to completely overpowered Awakened?

By not blowing their money on the expensive stuff, taking care of their contacts, stealing/cleaning their own drones whenever possible...and of course Awakened are completely overpowered, they always have been! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) It isn't that they can't afford it, its that each shot sounds like a cash register to them. *blamblamblam* = *ca-chingca-chingca-ching* = less upgrades. Life is hard, chummer, you gotta keep your priorities straight.

I think he is referring to the fact that a 100 round box of Ex-Ex Assault Rifle ammo costs 1000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

And if your runners are using more than a 100 rounds on a run that they getting payed less than 1000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , something has gone very wrong.

Sure, they could buy 100 rounds of AR ammo, which would last them for a few runs for only 1k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , but then that'd be 800 schumkers they're just throwing down the drain for a paltry bonus. Instead of spending the money, they'd rather take called shots for a far better (and cheaper) bonus. I guess it is just all in how you look at it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

EDIT: And yeah, there has been at least one occasion when they've felt the need to use a called shot with ex or ex-ex or APDS (I forgot which exactly), but again, they just don't want to spend the money unless it is needed. That's just how they look at it.

I'm sure there are more than a few runners that love the short, brutal life they lead, but I'm even more sure that the majority would love to save up enough so that when they can pull a really big score they can just retire somewhere safe. Pinching pennies is a big deal when you live paycheck to paycheck.

Maybe my players are just cheap: you should have seen the dirty looks the one player received when he announced he was looking to pickup an HVAR...

Drop Manball, and replace it with Stunball. Just as effective, with lower Drain.



The reason why armored vests still exist in my games is encumberance. It's great for those with a Body of less than 4. If you've got 4 or better, then the armored jacket becomes the best option.



Once again, you're assuming that they can't just stockpile the stuff in chargen. For 1 BP, you can have enough EX-EX ammo to last you your whole career. Seriously, if you've had to kill 500 people as a shadowrunner, you've got other problems than lack of ammunition.

As far as medkits go, I know how to legally obtain a paramedic-grade kit without much seaching. And it's legal, to boot. The people a shadowrunner are likely to encounter will either have a Rating 6 medkit or none at all. For example, the Docwagon paramedics will have a Rating 6. Joe Average will have a box of band-aids, not even a Rating 1 kit. The enemy will have a rating 6 medkit for themselves, which they might use on the shadowrunner they just captured. And so on.


Like I said before, if they've bought a crate of EX-EX during chargen, odds are unlikely that they'll ever need any more. Personally, I've never had a character who needed to buy ammo in-game, if I could buy it at chargen.

100 rounds of ammunition should last you more than "a few runs". You should not have to shoot a hundred people in a single adventure, or even a bunch of them for that matter.

has anyone ever had to buy ammo outside of chargen after they bought it in chargen. ive never seen that happen.

I have. A number of times. But then, most of our missions are not the kind that we can sneak both in to and back out of.

Come to think of it, there have been times where I've needed to replace gear. I think one character had to replace every single thing he had by the time the campaign was done.