We're introducing a Prime Runner into the game. The intent is for the a 3rd party to be identified as a high end fixer. Can anyone help us by pointing towards a game mechanic that would be used in identifying Prime Runners? Excluding Knowledge Skill Tests. Thanks in advance.

You could just give one of the characters that has the most likelihood of knowing the guy from some backstory related bit the actual knowledge. Which is to say, if you want the characters to know something, let them know it.

How would you know about Prime Runners without knowing about them? You could call a test of Perception, Etiquette or Leadership to detect how dangerous the Prime Runner seems to be. Astral Perception would yield even more information. The players will have to figure out the details on their own.

The Johnson could also reveal the name, and a short datasearch on said name would then reveal the status of the PR. "Want to search the matrix about her?" *prod*

Prime Runners? If they're prime...they're probably hidden. And behind them. With high-powered hidden weapons or astral stuff.

Or right next to them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)


All kidding aside, some fixer/checks around could cough some things up. Even some small things like bartender rumormill. If they are magically active, they may...or more than likely...may NOT show up, thanks to Masking.

This is what that street cred stat is for, chummer. A little legwork or a knowledge street test could pull down a variety of information on the prime runner.

We'll go to the Legwork rules when the PC's have the time to do so. We're really looking for a situation where the PC's can immediately recognize that they're looking at a Prime Runner.

About Knowledge Skill (Streetwise): We don't allow defaulting on KS, is that the norm?

People actually know a whole lot of trivial things about their society, often mish-mashed, unrelated things. I do allow defaulting on Knowledge skills.

No, that's a houserule - and a really sad one.

I like this answer. If your plans depend on the runners knowing something, your best bet is just to tell them. If you rely on some game mechanic to get the information to them, your players will unwittingly do everything in their power to sabotage your plans and keep from finding out this information.

Aren't there still Reputation rules of some sort in 4e?

And anyone who uses the RAW on them is nuts. Secret missions nobody knows about that you did wearing masks make your picture known to everyone nationwide.

Kind of reminiscent of the 3e ones in that way, then, huh?

Well, at any rate, it seems like they should offer an enterprising GM some sort of guideline, at least, for trying to explain how other Shadowrunners (who, it seems to me, might more plausibly recognize a "Prime Runner") might know someone by reputation. If nothing else, maybe the canon reputation rules might list what sort of rolls are suggested for recognizing someone by their reputation (if it's etiquette, or a knowledge skill, or whatever).

Speaking for myself, when I'm out to make an impression on someone concerning the stone cold (or red hot, whatever the case may be) reputation about another Shadowrunner...I tell them a story.

What's the guy known for? Why? Where? How long ago? What did he do to make his name -- and what have people heard, compared to what really happened? Don't just say "You've heard of him, he's a super awesome Prime Runner and you're totally intimidated." Think of the little video montage/flashback sort of scene that happens in some movies, when they're trying to tell you how tough someone is (the movie Snatch is a prime example of this sort of thing)...take a scene that the more experienced Shadowrunner is supposed to be famous for, imagine it multiplied tenfold by rumor and word of mouth, and tell that story to your PCs (unless they've got a damned good reason to know the real truth).

"Oh! I was expecting someone taller...".

Re: My sad house rule of not allowing a default on Knowledge Skills: KS's are flavor bits. I have my reasons for it. I feel that Knowledge Skills should have uses far and few between. "They are used primarily for legwork and character development." p. 127, SR4. When an opportunity does arise when a KS can be used, the PC with the appropriate KS steps into the spotlight and gives the PC's an inside track on moving the story forward. If there's a default for KS's then it's open season on KS's whenever a good argument can be made for one coming into play, despite there being no supportive reasons for a PC to have such knowledge. I fear that this constantly could threaten to overrun the game and reduce the "cool factor" for those player's that created PC's with the KS's that do come into play. This is my my primary reason for my sad house rule. It's my game and this has worked out as a better solution so far.

Re: Story time about the Prime Runner. The nut that I'm looking to crack is for the PC's to ID this Prime Runner independent of the NPC fixer telling them so. Best plan so far is to have one of the group's more loyal and connected Contacts be in the room and inform them as to the identity of the Prime Runner.

Re: RAW What is this? I don't know what we're talkin' 'bout here.

Re: Question about SR4 Reputation rules. Reputation rules are a part of the SR4 rulebook. It's just that for my question about PC's ID'ing NPC's, I found nothing helpful.

As for the tip to not let the dice determine the game...well aware of that pitfall. The idea is to allow PC's a shot at being able to ID Prime Runner on the spot, leading to a more favorable situation for them. Being able to do this or not do this is an indicator for the PC's being able to consider themselves shadowrunners or are they still just street punks? It is one of the game's central questions. Are they outsiders looking in or are they finally the real deal? In the scenario, PC's will eventually learn this is a Prime Runner, one way or another. This information is important in regards to the storyline progression so I'm not leaving it up to the dice to decide. The PC's will either jump a few steps ahead if they can ID the Prime Runner or they'll realize later that an opportunity was missed. A secondary option is on the table where the PC's are ultra-suave with Etiquette Tests and are able to appear as if they know who they're dealing with.

Thanks again to all who've responded to my question.

If you are going to burn the PCs with the insane reputation rules NPCs get to share the love.

We tend to use a lot of acronyms around here, RAW = Rules As Written.


You could give the Prime Runner the Distinctive Style negative quality from Runners Companion. The PR has some (or several depending on the BPs you want to invest) little detail about himself that stands out, makes him memorable, and easy to identify.
example
Runner 1: "Hey chummer, who is that ork over there with the golden cyberarm? He's giving me the stink eye."
Runner 2: "What ork?" *scans crowd* "Oh drek. That's Midas, he's one bad mother fragger."

or some such nonsense.

If you don´t have a fitting knowledge skill, your default test is "Joe Average knowledge", with a threshold for interesting things that will eleminate all ideas of abuse.

I like to use knowledge skills, they define if a streetsam is ex-ganger, ex-mercenary, or ex-desert wars. If you want your runner to be knowledgeable about other runners, buy an appropiate knowledge skill. "But we have earned 200 karma as runners, we would know" is answered with "You have earned 200 karma, you should know. Want to buy it now with your available karma?". Even minor knowledge skills can be very useful - your threshold could be 1 instead of 4.

*Two runners meet in front of a nondescript building, exit their vehicles and head for the only door in this side of the building striking up a conversation along the way.*

1st Runner to the 2nd: "Whoa dude, I just saw the most amazing thing. I was down at the Stuffer Shack and this skinny little guy rides up on his bike, right. He starts to walk in, but several of the Ragers hanging around decided he'd make a good mark. Big mistake! In like, 5 seconds there were dead gangers smeared all over the front of the Shack, dude. He just wasted 'em, ALL OF THEM," *Snaps Fingers* "like that, with his bare hands. Then he buys a pack of smokes, jumps back on his bike, and rides away like nothing happened. Hell, he didn't even wipe the blood off his hands!"

2nd Runner: "Sounds intense, man. I wish I could'a seen it."

*They enter the door*

2nd Runner: "So, what'd this guy look like?" *2nd Runner stops and looks back as he realizes the first is frozen in the doorway.*

1st Runner: "Uh, actually, he looked just like that guy sitting next to (enter other team member's name here)..." *Nods toward where the rest of the team is sitting around a table talking to "the guy".*

The RAW part of the Reputation rules are not very specific how they are applied.

You are Fastjack, so everyone should know you. Right? No, everyone only knows of you. If you got a Distinctive Style, maybe they even know what makes you Distinctive. RAW does not say how someone knows you are, well, you the shadowrunner.

Everyone knows of you, but not neccessarily you... reminds me of the session, back in the early 90s, when the team we were running back then overheard someone at their favorite bar talk about "the Crazies". They asked who those were, and got evasive answers. Looking into this matter, they found out that "the Crazies" was the nickname of a shadowrunner team infamous for its violence and body count. Their information gathering was kind of ham,pered due to the fact that none of their contacts had ever heard of those crazies - or claimed so when asked, but showing some nervousness.
So they gathered more information more covertly, and found out that the Crazies had a team composition very similar to their own - big bad trollsam, two combat mages, elven decker, etc. - and shared a lot of their habits and preferences. But they had never seen or met them before, despite that team being apparently very active, and feared - there must be a big conspiracy, or plot! Time to make those copycats stop!

It took them a few hours to realize that they were hunting themselves - "the Crazies" was what the rest of the scene called them, but never to their face.

It was at this point in your story that I knew exactly where you were headed. "The Crazies." Hunting themselves. That's classic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) Nice. Did it teach them to be more subtle? Probably not, huh?

Shout yo mouth...
I'm talking bout Midas

Sorry, couldnt resist