Fair enough.

...it still has nothing to do with Aikido, but it's an interesting travel possibility. ;)

OK, so thread necromancy is looked down upon. But in my search, I've encountered some resources which may prove to be of interest and/or amusement to the Dumpshock community at large, and which relate directly to the above discussion. Enjoy.

McDojo FAQ

McDojo Wiki

McDojo TV commercial

Asia's Bullshido Martial Arts Instruction VideoBullshido.net Karate Sucks Month 2007

Karate Sucks, Director's Cut (Even more funny)

EDIT: bleh, Karate Sucks 2007 won't play. Just search for it on youtube.

Wow...

What if he's really, really old?

You should probably watch out for anyone thats really, really old too.

Yeah, the Bullshido Your Martial Art Sucks videos are hilarious. The karate one is good, but I think that the taekwondo one is epic. These can all be found by looking at BullshidoPhrost's profile on YouTube. There's also a video recording of Bill Duff getting KTFO by a TKD BB.

ROTFL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

WOW! Yeah, the Bushido.net sucks videos are great! I personally like the karate more though. The tae kwon do had too many captions, the karate kind of spoke for itself.

Nice to see there are some martial artists on the forums. I've always been wary due to the legal repercussions of actually using it once you have formally learned it. I'm all for independent study though.

I was speaking earlier about tournamnet competition vs. self defense. David James (Shihan of VAJ) does a good job of explaining the difference. Although I can't speak as to the efficacy of the techniques, being untrained, this is the general attitude I was thinking of...learning to defend myself against an assailant, versus learning to fight (as in MMA, for example). Watch David James' "10 Commandments of Self Defense" here.

EDIT: also, check out youtube videos by the user defenseinstitute

To those who doubt MMA's effectiveness in a street fight, I suggest you watch this. Enjoy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

www.comegetyousome.com/video/18781/clip-about-mma-and-the-streets.html

The only martial art where I have seen multiple video clips of it "working" versus multiple opponents on the street is boxing. I think this is because when there are multiple attackers one of the very few viable strategies is to go at them with so much aggression and speedy continous attacks that you get them mentally off balance.

That guy makes me think of Van Damme. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Omae, this thread makes me want to start practicing again. Not Aikido though. I think if I went around again I would want something a little more directly oriented towards practical/effective techniques. Aikido became a bit too idealized for me. I can see the practical aspects, but there are plenty of techniques in Aikido that you just would not use in a street environment. Or, well, if you did, then I pity you. And to be honest, if you’re training for a possible encounter in a dark alley, then you don’t want to be incorporating breath throws into your training regiment because the shit goes down by muscle memory. If you try a Kokyunaga on a guy with a knife, well, I hope you’re a beast.

When I was practicing in VA one of the Yudansha took me under his wing. Those were my best Aikido experiences. Probably because he was a cop and our after-hours 'practice sessions' would involve something like "Ok, choke me out from behind and pretend you're a crackhead, I gotta see how to get out of this--a friend on the force got in this situation and had to pull his gun" which would eventually degenerate into a Brazilian Ju-jitsu-esque brawl (that he always won). lol, I just remembered the time I went into work with a huge bitemark on my arm, from, duh, where he had bitten the shit out of me. I worked with kids that had autism and I was the only male employee at this small, private school so all my co-workers were a bit confused as to why I had an immaculate pattern of teeth on my forearm. My girlfriend was none-too-pleased with the numerous bruises he left, either. But I, in my youthful exuberance, enjoyed it.

Anyways, happy beer-induced digression aside, I actually attended a seminar with Yamada Sensei. He was pretty amazing. This was, oh, six or seven years ago maybe? I don't know, it was in Dallas. Aikido was fun, and Zhan Shi, at first I thought like you did. In my defense, I was 17 when I started. You know, I wanted to be able to defend myself, but not hurt people, and have my martial art have some sort of philosophical implication that I could guide myself with. Well, I'm over that now. I think if I take something else now I'll just go for the "it puts people on the ground fast" aspect. Something like Krav Mega. Aikido was cool, and it taught me some neat things. But honestly, I'm non-violent by nature. So if I get into a situation where violence is required, I think my natural inclination towards politeness needs to be counterbalanced by breaking faces.

I'm going to research martial arts again now. Any fun suggestions? I'm partial to joint-locks, for instance. I need to find a place that I can work in between thesis-writing and soccer practice.

Oh, and Zhan Shi, thanks for this thread. Brought back good memories.

If you can find one that will teach out side of the corps a MCMAP(marine corps martialo arts) instructor will show you how to straight up put people down. No holds bar no rules kill a mo fo is their specialty.

That's just Combatives. The Army and the Marine Corps jointed develop and certify instructors for it. If you go to the advanced schools, you'll have a mix of Army and MC instructors.

But yea, their specialty is killing/disabling the target as quick and brutally as possible.

The trick with multiple opponents is to fight as few at a time as you can ... standing in the middle just gets you in trouble. There's a lot that goes into it, we'd often practice fighting multiple persons at once to help build "reactions" to these types of situations. Of course learning solid technique is very important because at full speed in a real situation you don't have time to think about it, it's got to be second nature.

The trick to multiple opponents is to be consistently moving, and taking advantage at everything that presents itself. On the surface this appears as naked aggression, but there is more to it. Boxing is great if you want to break your hand, and no I am not kidding about that. Always strike soft parts this loosens things up so you can do the really effective stuff, throw in some locks, throws, and bone breaking techniques then you are in business. The most important thing though is making sure you are willing to win the fight and fully accepting that to win every hit has to count. Every movement must count. By counting I mean it will inflict serious, potentially long term damage to another human being. If you can't learn that you are better off calling 911, because otherwise someone will be calling 911 to cart you to the hospital.

My principle background was as an HTH Combat Instructor in the USMC, followed by dabbling in many different martial arts. Most arts have something to teach you, but you must be capable of removing the ineffective garbage from the little bits of priceless lore. Then you can take those and form a solid basis of what works for you.

Chin-Na is a word that describes a whole canon of techniques, common to Tai Chi as well as most forms of Kung Fu, that involve joint locking, pressure point strikes, and such. It could be considered a martial art on it's own, although it is more like a library of techniques from which other martial arts borrow, add, or subtract (I learned a little when I was taking Choi li Fut). It is also generally acknowledged to form the underpinnings of, or at least have strongly influenced the development of similar Japanese arts such as Jujutsu, Judo and Aikido.

A long time ago, my first "serious" martial arts instructor had also been a Marine and the stuff he taught was pretty much exactly as you describe.

I feel that the doctrine is especially sound against opponents who don't "know" exactly what you're about to do, so they won't be able to quickly get out of your locks and bone breakers. However, against opponents who have grappling reflexes, going straight to the big bone breakers is unlikely to work if they're anything but totally surprised by your attack.

So, for example, let's say that I walked into a judo dojo "China Connection" style and proceeded to demand that the judoka present eat a paper sign with kanji saying "Sick Man Of Asia". If I subsequently tried to go for quick shoulder breaks, standing neck breakers, and head throws on all the judoka at once, probably they'd just defend successfully against my attacks, swarm in, drag me down, and they'd make me eat the sign instead. This would be because they have all the grappling reflexes and a quick path to the big break is really unlikely to work.

(Of course, any time you're unarmed and swarmed by 30 enraged judo players you're probably screwed. But I hope my main idea was understandable and entertainingly presented.)

Well said!

Come on Wounded Ronin!! I expect more than that from you of all people!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

As to the effectiveness of aikido, I think people need to understand that the martial application of the techniques is deeply hidden and requires diligent training to fully realize. Anybody can walk into a school that teaches MCMAP and learn to murder faces in a few short weeks (thats kind of the point). But I guarantee you that someone like Yamada sensei or Chiba sensei has a profound understanding of the nature of human conflict and the realities of life-or-death combat that you may or may not get as a civilian or a POG training in MCMAP (depending on where and how you are forced to use it). Does that make aikido the best choice for "Effective Self-defense" ™? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But thats not the point of aikido training...

To paraphrase another great aikido teacher: "If you just want to learn how to kill people, go buy a gun. Its a lot faster."

It was my understanding that one of the important parts to notice in Aikido is the 'do' bit, indicating that it is to be pursued as an art, not a means to become Ultra Killy McKillkill.

I've dabbled in martial arts a little, principally in an attempt to improve my flexibility, balance, co-ordination, and reflexes. If I wanted to hurt people I'm pretty sure I could get plenty of hands on practice in town on a Saturday night. A big chunk of it is a willingness to hurt people. However, I'm conditioned to be non-violent because I'm a functioning member of modern society, y'know?

I reckon it's important that you take the opportunity to sit in on a training session before taking up a martial art, and if you can take part then do so. That way you can determine whether the sensei/sifu/master or whatever is someone you can trust, and who will respect your reasons for pursuing his training, whether or not he shares them. Some instructors can be total jerks, and however talented or skilled they might be, do you really want to pay them to yell at you, or denigrate you? Personally, if I wanted that I'd join the army. Then I'd even be getting paid!

In the spirit of the videos posted above: When you`re in a real fight, beware the fancy moves...

Well... Ya gotta admire the showmanship (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Meh, Capoeira was designed from the beginning as something other than a practical way to fight--more like counting coo or having a dance-off.

Fewer movements + greater efficiency = better, as a general rule

The Oom Yung Doe place down the road from my house closed about a month ago. I was always wary of them because of the "omg flying kickz" pictures in their window. I'm glad to see my suspicion confirmed.