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Gnat
post Feb 10 2009, 11:34 PM
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Okay, I'm making a thrown weapons expert (thanks to that thrown weapons thread so long ago) and it generated a few questions that I'm not sure what the answers are.

Throwing Knife/Throwing Stars ...A character can ready Agility /2 throwing knives per Ready Weapon Action.

My Agility is 8, so I can ready 4 knives. But I also have Ambidexterity Quality. I also have The Adept Quality with the Quick Draw power.

My first Question is since I have Ambidexterity can I ready a total of 8 Throwing Knifes, 4 per hand? Or would it be 4 with 2 per hand. Now with that when I attack with them would I be able to attack with all that are readied? Either 8 or 4 depending on the first answer or just a max of 2? Of Course taking into account my thrown weapons dice pool will be split due to ambidexterity.

I Don't ask this question with any other thrown weapon since you can only ready one per hand i.e. grenades. And am able to figure that out on my own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
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Thadeus Bearpaw
post Feb 10 2009, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (Gnat @ Feb 10 2009, 05:34 PM) *
Okay, I'm making a thrown weapons expert (thanks to that thrown weapons thread so long ago) and it generated a few questions that I'm not sure what the answers are.

Throwing Knife/Throwing Stars ...A character can ready Agility /2 throwing knives per Ready Weapon Action.

My Agility is 8, so I can ready 4 knives. But I also have Ambidexterity Quality. I also have The Adept Quality with the Quick Draw power.

My first Question is since I have Ambidexterity can I ready a total of 8 Throwing Knifes, 4 per hand? Or would it be 4 with 2 per hand. Now with that when I attack with them would I be able to attack with all that are readied? Either 8 or 4 depending on the first answer or just a max of 2? Of Course taking into account my thrown weapons dice pool will be split due to ambidexterity.

I Don't ask this question with any other thrown weapon since you can only ready one per hand i.e. grenades. And am able to figure that out on my own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)



Ambidexterity spiecifically mentions attacking not readying an action. I'd say that despite the real world logic of what ambidexterity might mean, you couldn't double the number of knives you can draw due to being ambidextrous. Now the quick draw would apply IMO, but i think that's the most knives you could pull unless you have other time saving devices (guards, spring knives etc).

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Draco18s
post Feb 10 2009, 11:52 PM
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Throw grenades. Bean people in the head with them, then have them explode. ;D
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Thadeus Bearpaw
post Feb 11 2009, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 10 2009, 05:52 PM) *
Throw grenades. Bean people in the head with them, then have them explode. ;D


It is the most dishonorable way to kill someone. I mean if a squad of guys throws grenades at you to kill you, fine you died in an epic fashion. If one guy pitches a baseball grenade to the skull to give you a concussion all you can say, "that was lame."
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Gnat
post Feb 11 2009, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE
Ambidexterity spiecifically mentions attacking not readying an action. I'd say that despite the real world logic of what ambidexterity might mean, you couldn't double the number of knives you can draw due to being ambidextrous. Now the quick draw would apply IMO, but i think that's the most knives you could pull unless you have other time saving devices (guards, spring knives etc).


Thank you for the correction Thadeus. After re-reading the description for both I would agree with you.

But that still leaves my question. If I have a total of 4 throwing knifes in one hand and I attack do I only throw 1 or do I throw all of them? I know if I had one in each hand I could attack with both, with of course splitting the dice pool.
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Gnat
post Feb 11 2009, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 10 2009, 05:52 PM) *
Throw grenades. Bean people in the head with them, then have them explode. ;D


Kinda the point but with gas grenades. Or just throw stun patches at them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Thadeus Bearpaw
post Feb 11 2009, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE (Gnat @ Feb 10 2009, 06:10 PM) *
Thank you for the correction Thadeus. After re-reading the description for both I would agree with you.

But that still leaves my question. If I have a total of 4 throwing knifes in one hand and I attack do I only throw 1 or do I throw all of them? I know if I had one in each hand I could attack with both, with of course splitting the dice pool.


You throw one, and the other one is still considered "readied". You could throw all of them I suppose, but I'd at least split the pools appropriately. I'm pretty sure throwing a weapon is already a simple action, so you wouldn't have to bother readying more weapons. In other words, the first draw of four made with a free action would qualify you for the next two passes with 2 knives thrown a pass. At least I think.
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Zen Shooter01
post Feb 11 2009, 01:26 AM
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In RL, people using throwing weapons often hold several in their off hand, then pluck them from their off hand one at a time with their dominant hand and throw them. Go to Cold Steel's website and look at the demo videos for the tomahawks.
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Thadeus Bearpaw
post Feb 11 2009, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (Zen Shooter01 @ Feb 10 2009, 07:26 PM) *
In RL, people using throwing weapons often hold several in their off hand, then pluck them from their off hand one at a time with their dominant hand and throw them. Go to Cold Steel's website and look at the demo videos for the tomahawks.


Yeah that' what I was thinking, the issue would be by the RAW, how many knives can Gnat throw in a given pass? If he's readying them in one hand (with ambidextiery he'd not have a dominant one) and throwing them, does that mean the plucking action counts as quick drawing or the time taken in the throwing the motion, snap, and release?
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Browncoatone
post Feb 11 2009, 01:47 AM
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I think the limit is how many targets you can attack, rather than how many knifes you can throw. Kinda of like a burst fire weapon- the fact that you're sending three bullets down range doesn't mean you're engaging three targets with those bullets.
I'm sure I've seen professional knife throwers toss several knives at a time, but always at a single target per hand.

Now this is just me, but logically, I would allow you guy to ready his stars/knives in each hand and engage a target per hand, but each hand's worth of weapons would be required to be thrown (no drawing out two knifes per hand and only throwing one from each hand) and I'd treat the 'extra' knives/stars/spikes per target the same way you'd treat a burst fire weapon.

But that's just me, and I'm sure someone hear will be by shortly to tell you how bad a person I am for telling you that.

:)
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Thadeus Bearpaw
post Feb 11 2009, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Feb 10 2009, 07:47 PM) *
I think the limit is how many targets you can attack, rather than how many knifes you can throw. Kinda of like a burst fire weapon- the fact that you're sending three bullets down range doesn't mean you're engaging three targets with those bullets.
I'm sure I've seen professional knife throwers toss several knives at a time, but always at a single target per hand.

Now this is just me, but logically, I would allow you guy to ready his stars/knives in each hand and engage a target per hand, but each hand's worth of weapons would be required to be thrown (no drawing out two knifes per hand and only throwing one from each hand) and I'd treat the 'extra' knives/stars/spikes per target the same way you'd treat a burst fire weapon.

But that's just me, and I'm sure someone hear will be by shortly to tell you how bad a person I am for telling you that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


If we're talking realism than the issue of knife throwing v burst fire with a gun is accuracy and motion. I'd betting accurate bullet to knife out put are very different in speed, that's presuming master gunmen and master knife-throwers. I'd let Gnat throw a knife in each hand, but burst fire is a bit much, given the speed at which some guns spit out those three rounds such that they are one attack. Even than throwing a knife from each hand would split the pool. You're not bat at all for mentioning it by the way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Draco18s
post Feb 11 2009, 01:59 AM
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Personally I'd treat it as burst fire as well. Though I think I might be inclined to say only as a wide burst: knives are (relatively) slow moving projectiles that have a greater degree of variance between individual flight paths and as such throwing two or more would simply reduce the target's dodge.
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Browncoatone
post Feb 11 2009, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE
Personally I'd treat it as burst fire as well. Though I think I might be inclined to say only as a wide burst: knives are (relatively) slow moving projectiles that have a greater degree of variance between individual flight paths and as such throwing two or more would simply reduce the target's dodge.


Exactly!

I should have been more specific: Throwing multiple knives at one target in one action shouldn't give you multiple damage rolls just like multiple bullets in a burst fire attack do not yield multiple damage rolls. Additional stars/knives should only modify the damage roll.
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Muspellsheimr
post Feb 11 2009, 08:29 AM
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As said, you can ready multiple knives with a single action. You can throw a single knife with a single action (barring split pools).

How many knives you have ready is how many are drawn & ready to be thrown - not how many you can throw.

As for quick-draw, you can draw multiple weapons with an increased threshold if I remember correctly. So, in other words, increase your quick-draw threshold to use two ready weapon actions, & thus twice the normal amount of knives.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 11 2009, 09:41 AM
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However, Quickdraw readies only one weapon that needs to be used immediatly - so you can quickdraw & throw two knives successivly.

As throwing a knive is a simple action, get the Krav Maga fea... errr, advantage that makes Ready Weapon a free action.
Then you can ready 4 knives without any test at all in a free action and throw two for two simply actions.
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Magus
post Feb 11 2009, 01:14 PM
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My GM and I had this same conversation before. We asked Peter Taylor on it and he stated you could only throw one object per simple action.
So first simple is to ready weapon
Second simple is to throw one weapon

Next IP
Throw 1 readied weapon (Simple)
Throw 1 readied weapon (Simple)

Depending on your agility and how many weapons you had readied rinse and repeat above.
Now with quick draw ready weapon becomes a free action and you could concievably throw a weapon per simple action per IP.
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Sir_Psycho
post Feb 11 2009, 02:58 PM
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You might want to consider the Nimble Fingers adept power.
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jago668
post Feb 13 2009, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Feb 11 2009, 10:58 AM) *
You might want to consider the Nimble Fingers adept power.


Well it doesn't help with readying weapons. So wouldn't help you ready more throwing weapons, or throw more weapons per initiative pass. Thematically it would fit a throwing character rather well, but doesn't really do anything for them.

Best just to take the quick draw adept power, or take the krav maga free action ready weapon ability. Leaving you the ability to toss two knives per turn. I don't know what the rule is on ambidexterity and a knife in each hand. However I would let someone throw two per simple action with the normal two weapon penalties.
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