Hi chumpers.

I was wondering, are there any major physical barriers that contain Puyallup and Redmond barrens? Should runners have to pass a checkpoint going in or out? What keeps ghouls and hell hounds from wandering into the nicer parts of the city?

Any insight would be helpful. If you have links to resources or old topics that'd be great too, but I'm out of cash so no new books for the time being (I just have the SR4 core).

I do recall reading in the Seatle handbook that Redmond is surrounded by a wall with checkpoints but Puyallup is not (it is just a really run down neighbourhood). All the districts of Seatle will have checkpoints on their outside boarders into the NAN as well (with the exception of Redmond, maybe that is why the checkpoints are bordering Redmond from the rest of Seatle).

I think for the most part it's geographical distance. Seattle is a huge sprawl, and the distance from Redmond to Seattle is huge on foot. To get on foot out of a Z-zone, for one thing you have to hoof it on foot through the Z-zone, which is dangerous enough. If you're not using major roads (that's where the roadblocks and checkpoints would be) then you may have to go through/near extraterritorial property, who will shoot a ghoul before smelling him.

Sure, it would happen occasionally, but only in small amounts. A large pack of ghouls/hellhounds/etc. would be noticed by the star as soon as they moved near a patrolled area, and quickly mopped up, probably by aerial drones and vehicles and maximum prejudice. Trespassers will be shot, if already dead, they will be blended.

As for Shadowrunners, they may have to deal with checkpoints on the way in, but I can't see Lone Star doing anything much other than warning a civilian they won't be protected by the security contractor in an unpatrolled z-zone. They probably just figure "it's your funeral." When heading back to society, I wouldn't be surprised if coming out of the barrens is gives probable cause for a vehicle search, and maybe even testing for diseases that could be dangerous to Seattle.

The most powerful barrier in the world separates the barrens, its called laziness.

There is a wall separating the Redmond barrens from the district directly to the West of it (I forget the name... Renton?). What keeps the Barrens from expanding is the fact that there are "groups" that have economic interests in the bordering neighbourhoods that have an interest in not having those areas fall into ruin. So, they spend the money to upkeep the properties (to a certain degree) and provide security for the areas.

I imagine that the same corps also try to create transitions areas (former barren areas into newly productive areas) in the barrens like Puyallup. Heck even parts of Redmon are not totally lost to the barrens, I imagine that even crime syndicates would be interested in setting up shop just inside the barrens to keep out of Lone Star's gaze. I can't think of a better place to set up a meth lab then the barrens. Pay the local gangs to act as security and make an example of anyone that causes you trouble (not like your going to go to jail for murdering someone in the barrens).

My group just had their Luxurious lifestyle destroyed by my character's Enemy/Vendetta, and we're gunna be carving a High Lifestyle out of a Z-zone in response.

Cool. Thanks for the input all.

My players are heading into Puyallup, so in describing the surrounding area it depends what route they'll take in. If they start at Puyallup City Proper (that's the area bordering the northern two suburbs, supposedly semi-inhabitable) I might use checkpoints warning people on the way in, since it makes sense for this area to be highly patrolled. If they take the highways across one of the more quiet borders, I'll play up the distance angle (and the fact that the terrain is crappy and mostly ruined), with all the nearby private housing having a heavy guard presence, and corps buying up the land either side of the highway and a checkpoint to make sure no one sickly looking comes through. I really like the idea about scanning people for disease, so I'll definitely include that.

Thanks again, and any further thoughts are welcome.

Its a run down feral border.

1. So dystopia

2. Like the us Mexico border unprotected

3. Like driving across the Midwest, there is nothing to look at

4. Also a place where the city spreads into country if I remember right so lots of city/forest critters

As some folks have said, there isn't a wall around the area or anything like that. The entire "neighborhood" is over 1000 sq km - heck of a lot of wall to watch/patrol/etc. I can certainly see police checkpoints in place. Better to stop people at the border than having to go in and save their sorry butts later.

In general, based on my experience of living near Detroit, barrens are self-sustaining. You don't need to tell people where the border is. The longer you drive, the more boarded up/burned out houses you see, abandoned storefronts, tireless cars setting in alleyways - you know where you are. You know when to turn around.

The same is true for keeping barrens barren. Who is going to be the first guy to move his business into the abandoned shopping district? Who wants to move their family into the neighborhood full of crack houses?

As for critters, in Michigan every now and then a deer will wander out of the nearby farmland and end up in some downtown area. It typically ends badly for the animal. I imagine the same thing happens with "barrens critters." Those that wander into town die. Those that stay in the barrens live.

One thing you should remember about Puyallup is that it is also the centre for the Ork Underground. That means Ork gangs would also act as "security" the deeper you go into the barrens. In some cases they are better at protecting the locals then Lone Star is in areas like Aulbern and Renton.

Source?

IIRC, much of the Underground is is Seattle proper (Downtown in SR terms). I think you're confusing the Underground with the orks of Carbonado.

I stand corrected the Ork Underground is a collection of cells from Tacoma, Everet, Downtown and Puyallup. Not every part is connected together or organized together. It is basically a city under the city. (New Seatle pg 58)

HA! I just had the best image of some person waking up in the morning, getting a cup of soycaf, and looking out their window to see a Ghoul in the garden eating their cat.

That would be much more interesting than looking out the window and seeing a deer eating your veggies.

Urban encroachment indeed!

I do.

Except someone owns that property and they get developed when it's worth enough money.

Rich areas become poor areas [companies close down] and poor areas become rich areas [development and shopping precinct, for instance].

Happens all the time, and is mentioned in several of the sourcebooks.

How do Ghettos become so in real life? How do they recover? Do they ever recover?

But, in Seattle, the Barrens are actually created areas by Lone Star (And other security companies), and most cities have similar areas for the same reason.

What reason can that be?

Simple, it's somewhere to point and say, "Look! Barbarians at the gates!" and scare John Q. Taxpayer into screaming to his local representative to do something about it, which means more security contracts.

More than one Lone Star Officer is probably willing to look the other way to criminal enterprizes in exchange for a little something on the side, and will nicely let you off in the Barrens rather than taking you in. Provided his quota is achieved.

If you pay extra, he'll even slow down before you get thrown out of the Police Modified Americar!

Lone Star and the like don't just contain Z-Zones, they cultivate them. It's totally reasonable to assume that most major Lone Star departments funnel just enough guns and money into the shitholes of the Sixth World to keep the major groups fighting, and to keep the world dangerous. Being corporate, they're always in competition to hold their contract.

Worth mentioning that a lot of the land ownership records were lost in the last Crash meaning some goodly chunks of Redmond are still in legal dispute, hence no-one can develop there or colelct rent even if they want to. Redmond does have some industry. A few corps have plants there. If it's worth opening up a plant in the Third World to keep costs down, you might as well open it up in the Third World that's down the road from you.

For flavour, I've put most Call Centres on the outskirts of Z-Zones, and they'll hire SINless people in exchange for Food Stamps or something similar. Which, of course, also allows for "Market Groups" for new products as well (Like new versions of Long Haul, or the new flavour of Bachelor Chow!). And, because they're SINless, you don't have to pay them minimum wage!

Depending on the country, the Corporation in question might even get a Government Stippend for hiring the SINless in order to "Keep Crime Down".

All that means is that when you call for tech support, the accent is at least familiar, but all they know is the script given to them.

Well, that, and no sane Magician would want to be in Astral Space near the places!

Redmond is not surrounded by a wall, but there is a wall between Redmond and the neighbouring Bellevue, which is patrolled by Lone Star.

Lone Star, and other Security Companies. I'm willing to bet the Richie-Rich Folks aren't too inclined to let JUST the "Police" handle the situation on the "Wrong side of the wall.".

I mean, after all, look at all the violence and chaos that happens in the Barrens! They show it on the News and Urban Brawl!

And the Police certainly haven't "Cleaned Up" the Barrens, heavens no. They can barely contain it! Yes, darling, another Manhattan while I complain to the Neighbourhood Committe about the need for more guards.

Now, who wants to bet Lone Star owns the other Security Companies that contract for those jobs as well, huh? Same armour, same training, different colours.

Or, alternatively, it could be how Knight Errant slowly starts to move it's Security Forces in, to make Lone Star look bad and help them get that nice, fat "Law Officer" Contract that Seattle has with Lone Star.

Shadowrunners hitting certain parts of the wall with mobs of angry gangers at the right time (Shift Change) would make for good news. Good, for whatever Corp Mr. Johnson is working for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

Just make sure that Mr. J isn't working for Lone Star and they are trying to show how "effective" they really are.

That's the Recon part of the job. If the information that Mr. J gave is inaccurate in that extreme a level, that's violation of contract.

Works both ways, chummers. And if the set-up is that obvious, it's time to show the Mr. Johnsons that they're not the only ones that do the screwing in the Shadows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Can I hire you to educate my players? I disagree some with your thoughts on the Star. You're thoughts on "Know what you are doing" are something my players just don't get.

How do you feel about baseball bats as an educational tool?