I think this question is big enough that it needs it's own post. In SR4A what happens to a mage that gets knocks unconscious in the astral? Some people think they port back to their body, which doesn't sound right since it seems so dangerous to have your body moved. Otherwise you could just fail enough drains to be autoported back to your body. Seems kind of cheesy. Also, does anyone have any references?

Nope.

Pick what you think is most fun or dramatic for your game. Even vary it per mage, tradition, or each instance. Sometimes it's much more fun to not know the answer.

This has been discussed before

I think the titel of this one is nearly identical to the old one as well... Eerie.

It doesn't appear that this issue got resolved in the other thread either. This is a pretty basic mechanic that should have been addressed in the rules. And yes, I think it needs to be addressed otherwise I wouldn't need a rulebook. I could make up everything and tell a story sans rules if I wanted to, but I don't. I'd like an actual rule so my players know what to expect so we can establish a consistency of sorts.

This is a tricky issue indeed. On one hand, the rules are clear that damage to the body manifests on the Astral form and vice versa. The section under Astral Combat states that damage can be either Physical or Stun (attacker's choice). However, this seems to be in conflict with the "While You Were Out..." sidebar that talks about a Magician's Astral Form continuing on after the body has died. If all Physical damage to the body affects the Astral form, you would think that the Astral form wouldn't be able to survive its condition monitor being filled up.

If one removes the "or Physical" part of Astral damage then things start to make a little more sense. All damage done to a Magician's Astral Form is recorded on the Stun track. Damage to the physical body is "felt" (vaguely) by the Astral Form, but doesn't affect it (since it is a purely "mental" manifestation). Thus, if the Stun Damage Track of a projecting Magician is filled his Astral Form would dissipate. Then you have a choice: does the Astral Form teleport back to the body, or you can make a Natural Healing check and see how long it takes the Magician to "wake up" at that point his Astral Form re-appears where it last was in the Astral, forcing the Magician to find their body again.

Conversely if Physical damage is done to the body it will not affect the Astral Form, and if the Physical Damage Track is filled, the body is dead, but the Astral Form (the "spirit") will live on for Magic x 2 hours.

<not serious>
The real answer is that they become "Magenomancers" in the great astral crash.
</not serious>
DireRadiant's answer is pure win. I especially like that he mentioned Tradition. I can't see that word enough when it comes to the astral.

I see where you guys are coming from but the "who knows" and "it's up to the GM" answer doesn't help. I, as well as others, need a "Here is what usually happens" answer. If a GM chooses to throw the character in an astral hell that they have to fight out of to get back to their body then he can choose to do so but we need to know what USUALLY happens.

Pick one and do that for your game. I promise the SR4 gaming police won't knock down your doors and take you in for reprogramming.

Though they are watching you.

Yes, yes we are.

I think found the freakin answer. In Arsenal of all places. Check page 66 and read what MageCuffs do. Here's a bit of info for you:
"Should the magician attempt any magic, including astral perception or projection, the incandescence from the glomoss triggers the shock system, and the magician resists 12S Electrical damage. The shock is designed to knock the magician out and jerk her astral form back to her body."

And to back that up check out Street Magic page 115 in the paragraph talking about tunneling throug the Earth:
"If the magician rolls a critical glitch, his astral form is disrupted; he is sent immediately back to his physical body and is knocked unconscious (fill in the character’s entire Stun Condition Monitor)."

So... it appears that when your astral form is disrupted or you get shoved back into your body, unconscious. It's a shame they couldn't just say this in the main book.

This does open up the door of intentionally disrupting yourself if you find your physical body has been moved.

On the one hand, you are guaranteed to find your body that way, but on the other hand you will be unconscious for a while when you do and are therefore helpless and at the whims of whomever has your body. Maybe thats not so bad as I think of it. Body snatching just requires things like magecuffs to keep the kidnapped mage out if they use that approach to return to their body.

I'll have to think about this some more.

Excellent Safety hack. Many kudos to you good sir.

So no worries! Instead of the paragraph in the "While You Were Out..." in the core book, just go unconscious and automatically snap back! Why bother having that paragraph if you could just do that?

BTW, I don't find any of the things mentioned mutually exclusive. For example, if the astrally projecting mage was knocked unconscious, but the body was moved, I would rule that the astral form is not returned to their body, but to where the body was.

The mage gets back to find that his body is facing the wrong way, has been moved six inches to the left, and has a mustache drawn on in permanent marker.

Oh, wait, you were asking about the astral body...




-karma

If it's indeed disruption then I don't believe the location of your spirit in relation to your body matters anymore. It simply "snaps back".

And yes, it looks like you can chain cast till drain knocks you out. That has brought up some questions in our group but I'm willing to just accept it if it means that we've got a semi-solid ruling.

Meh, it's not like stealing a Projecting Magician's body was some kind of Great Game Equalizer or anything.

Considering the "unification" of game methods in 4th Ed, I would think it would be great to make mages just like technomancers. That is to say to remove the immobile body requirement.

My group used a projecting mage in a chase scene but he didnt go far enough that it would be hard to find his body.

I say keep it just because it's another way to mess with the players.

Then again I mostly GM, so I may be biased.

Plus, as I joke above, my players tend to like pulling practical jokes on the projecting mage.

Like imitating that story about punching an unconscious victim's bunghole a few times and then dropping a used condom down his pants.



-karma

You could rule that doing damage to the mage's physical body (magecuffs) drags the astral form back. Messing up the astral form doesn't necessarily snap it back, though. Traveling through the Earth and critically glitching doesn't just disrupt the form, it effectively means you've stopped convincing your astral form to exist where it shouldn't and you get shoved back into your body.

This makes the rules a little more interesting, I think. Your astral form is consciously projected and can't find your body if you don't do it. If you're knocked out, your astral form has enough spiritual inertia to keep existing, but if it's destroyed, you (eventually) wake up in your body. Just having your astral form mangled (by drain, for instance) doesn't destroy the form, so you don't end up back in your skin.

That's just my long-winded excuse for not liking the idea of having mages who are knocked out wake up in their astral form where their body used to be. I don't see why there should be any mystic link to the place they projected from. Especially if they were in a moving car at the time—it's come up!

sounds good to me, and if a mage in your group intentionally knocks himself out more than once in a blue moon, I'll buy you a coke

I too like the answer/option provided by DireRadiant as well...

Not saying that it could not happen, but I have never seen a mage intentionally knock himself out...

If the mage can't find his body and is running out of time to get back, knocking himself out to avoid dying sure seems like a good idea. How often it happens depends entirely on how often in your campaigns bodies go missing while the owner is out and whether the GM allows and the players know about the trick. Make it known and you'll have astral mages diving headfirst into walls all the time!

With the mage cuffs it makes me think of Decker watching in previous editions when it wasn't all an AR happy fest. Now in mage watching instead of pulling the plug in dire circumstances, you slap on the cuffs at 5 hours and 45 minutes or as a risky move when it looks likes the mage might lose a astral fight. as wounds start to manifest. I kind of dig this.

Not to judge but that seems a great way to lose a valuable asset.
jerk "Hey Bob astrally project and scout this area. "
Bob " Why don't you go frag yourself."
Being an asshat to fellow players rarely works out well.