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Adarael
post Apr 24 2009, 08:54 PM
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You have no idea how good a dog's sense of smell and hearing is, if you think that's unlikely.

Regardless, there can be no arguing with purely thermal imaging not seeing through windows. It's fact.
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Draco18s
post Apr 24 2009, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 24 2009, 03:54 PM) *
Regardless, there can be no arguing with purely thermal imaging not seeing through windows. It's fact.


I'm not disputing that fact, I'm disputing the blatantly wrong postulation that a dog can't see through glass (it's blue and yellow cones still work!)
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AllTheNothing
post Apr 24 2009, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (Writer @ Apr 24 2009, 11:05 AM) *
I don't think birds have thermographic vision. If they did, they wouldn't fly into windows, as they would see a barrier. Dogs don't even see in color, and definitely do not see in thermographic.

As for infrared light going through windows, I will use your car in the summer as a good illustration. Have you ever wondered why your car gets so hot on a sunny day? The light from the sun, visual light that our human eyes can see, goes right through the glass. It hits the materials inside, and because visible light is still a form of energy, it gets absorbed by the material, then is emitted as heat. (Look up black body radiation.) The energy has shifted in wavelengths, from visible to infrared (heat), and the infrared cannot pass through the glass, so it become stuck inside your car, slowly raising the temperature. It can get to 120 degrees or more inside a car on a 90 degree day. This same concept is why you might see desert people wearing black. White reflects more heat, but certain black materials radiate more heat. With a decent insulator under the black clothing, all you really have to worry about is your own body heat. With the right kind of materials, black will keep you cooler than white.

Which brings up a question:
Shouldn't contact lenses/glasses/goggles/helmet visors block dwarf's/troll's thermographic vision?
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Stahlseele
post Apr 24 2009, 09:31 PM
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Technically, yes, true. At least, if it was an X/OR Array, and not a parallel-switch.
you don't switch it on and off. Dwarves and Trolls still have the usual optical visuals. but they also get the overlay from Thermographics.
So while Thermo might not be usefull anymore, that does not mean that they don't see anything anymore . .
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Draco18s
post Apr 24 2009, 09:34 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 24 2009, 04:31 PM) *
Technically, yes, true. At least, if it was an X/OR Array, and not a parallel-switch.



....Are you trying to say that while glasses should block a dwarf/trolls termovision that it doesn't because it's an overlay with their regular vision?

That's like putting on those red/blue 3D glasses and still seeing in true color.
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Adarael
post Apr 24 2009, 09:40 PM
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He's saying that putting on glasses doesn't block ALL their vision, just the thermo portion. See:
QUOTE
So while Thermo might not be usefull anymore, that does not mean that they don't see anything anymore .


The 'anything' referring to the rest of the visual spectrum.
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Draco18s
post Apr 24 2009, 09:44 PM
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Which answered far far more than the original question asked:

QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Apr 24 2009, 04:25 PM) *
Which brings up a question:
Shouldn't contact lenses/glasses/goggles/helmet visors block dwarf's/troll's thermographic vision?


I do believe that the answer is, "Yes, but not by RAW."

The question made no mention of ALL sight.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 24 2009, 09:46 PM
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Gods and here i thought i'd had enough of that when i got home from work . . obviously not . .
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Adarael
post Apr 24 2009, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 24 2009, 01:44 PM) *
Which answered far far more than the original question asked:
The question made no mention of ALL sight.


You should probably adjust your attitude a little, man. I don't know about other people, but your constantly superior posturing in every single thread has really started to get under my skin. I haven't got anyone on my ignore list yet, and I don't want to have to start now, after 6 years on this board.

Stahlseele answered the question. He added additional information. There's nothing wrong with that. So please, for my sanity, stop acting superior because he happened to answer the question and do so with more than the bare minimum of words.
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Screaming Eagle
post Apr 24 2009, 10:04 PM
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2 seperate thoughts on the contact lens blocking thermo front:

-*Hand waving gesture* its magic! Woooo! - just let it work for the poor short sighted bugger with contact lenses who can't get surgury for X reason. (I'd draw the line at googles, binoculars etc though, especially anything offering digitally enhanced images) After all mages "line of sight" is hilariously gernerous.

-in the 50+ some years since the start of this meta-human fandango -someone- has to have figured out an optic material that lets the thremo through relativily clearly if only for the reason that these guys will gladly pay a bit more rather then get their vision down graded.

Both of these assume a desire to be somewhat generous to the Trog and the Squat. I rarely have this desire but I've noticed several here who do.
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AllTheNothing
post Apr 24 2009, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 24 2009, 11:44 PM) *
Which answered far far more than the original question asked:



I do believe that the answer is, "Yes, but not by RAW."

The question made no mention of ALL sight.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) ALL sight?
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Stahlseele
post Apr 24 2009, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ Apr 25 2009, 12:04 AM) *
2 seperate thoughts on the contact lens blocking thermo front:

-*Hand waving gesture* its magic! Woooo! - just let it work for the poor short sighted bugger with contact lenses who can't get surgury for X reason. (I'd draw the line at googles, binoculars etc though, especially anything offering digitally enhanced images) After all mages "line of sight" is hilariously gernerous.

-in the 50+ some years since the start of this meta-human fandango -someone- has to have figured out an optic material that lets the thremo through relativily clearly if only for the reason that these guys will gladly pay a bit more rather then get their vision down graded.

Both of these assume a desire to be somewhat generous to the Trog and the Squat. I rarely have this desire but I've noticed several here who do.

Main Problem I would see with this, ESPECIALLY with Contacts, would be the fact, that they would be warmed up by your very own body warmth and thus be pretty much the only thing you can see . .
same with the contacts being cold, all you see is the dark blue or whatever cold means to you . .
But yes, that's too miniscule a detail to really go into . . and i fucking like playing dwarves and trogs, so hell no, i ain't gonna make them lose one of their good things O.o
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Draco18s
post Apr 24 2009, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 24 2009, 04:55 PM) *
You should probably adjust your attitude a little, man. I don't know about other people, but your constantly superior posturing in every single thread has really started to get under my skin. I haven't got anyone on my ignore list yet, and I don't want to have to start now, after 6 years on this board.

Stahlseele answered the question. He added additional information. There's nothing wrong with that. So please, for my sanity, stop acting superior because he happened to answer the question and do so with more than the bare minimum of words.


I'm being superior because he used overly complicated techobabble to answer a simple yes or no question?
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Adarael
post Apr 25 2009, 06:20 AM
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This is dumpshock. Overcomplicated answers are the norm.
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blindfox
post Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM
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being worth a thousand words, i took these pics last night considering some of the points made regarding this technology:

iraqi soldiers at a checkpoint. notice the man on the right's arm is leaning on his AK-47. also notice that the metal is cool and appears lighter in black hot.

me in white hot.

me in black hot.

this pic illustrates the point made about windows, as well as showing an open window. see also the hot engine, but cool tread walls on the tires.

i took this vid because people on rooftops were mentioned. it's short and mind you we were on the move as i shot it.

this vid is a funny one, but it illustrates a closer view of the varying heat gradients as well as how they work in motion.
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blindfox
post Apr 26 2009, 03:09 AM
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so i see you cant view the pics without having to log into myspace. unfortunately i dont have any other webspace so thats the only place i know where to put it. anyone have any ideas how i can fix it so you guys can see these pics?
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Stahlseele
post Apr 26 2009, 07:49 AM
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flickr?
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Zaranthan
post Apr 26 2009, 02:45 PM
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www.imageshack.us
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Draco18s
post Apr 26 2009, 06:23 PM
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www.tinypic.com

Because I don't have a myspace account and have no interest in getting one.
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Writer
post Apr 26 2009, 08:22 PM
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I think Blindfox should fly us out to Iraq and show us personally. He could probably show us what it is REALLY like to be shot at, the affects of grenades in close quarters, and why Full Defense should be a complex action in a fire fight.
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blindfox
post Apr 26 2009, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (Writer @ Apr 26 2009, 11:22 PM) *
I think Blindfox should fly us out to Iraq and show us personally. He could probably show us what it is REALLY like to be shot at, the affects of grenades in close quarters, and why Full Defense should be a complex action in a fire fight.

lol, but hey, the chow's a lot better this time around

btw, working on getting those images up on flickr. posted within the hour
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Stahlseele
post Apr 26 2009, 09:40 PM
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Godspeed, young padawan!
But don't post anything that could get you in trouble.
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blindfox
post Apr 26 2009, 10:53 PM
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thanks for the safe thoughts all, but since the SOFA there's not a whole lot going on (by comparison to past tours) and i dont think these pics will violate opsec, stahlseele, but if they come asking tell em a spirit made me do it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

the pic that proves the point regarding windows.

me in black hot

me in white hot

iraqi checkpoint

the rooftop vid

everyone's a comedian
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Stahlseele
post Apr 26 2009, 10:59 PM
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that last one:"what the frag?"
the rooftop vid: first thing i noticed:"Armed"
and i frigging can't make out anything aside from rough shapes in these x.x
where's the blue to red shift when going from cold to hot?
i have been lied to by hollywood! curses!
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eidolon
post Apr 26 2009, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
Main Problem I would see with this, ESPECIALLY with Contacts, would be the fact, that they would be warmed up by your very own body warmth and thus be pretty much the only thing you can see . .


Your cornea is essentially clear bioglass, and it's at your body temperature. So do their corneas block their thermographic vision? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

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