So the story goes: I played Shadowrun second and third edition for about.... 8 years or so. A while back when the forth edition came out first, i borrowed the book, and i remember not much else than i read it for a day, gave it back and continued to play 3rd edition, never thinking about it again. (only shuddering a bit when the thought accured *g*)

So i moved, and have a new roleplaying group here and they want to start a Shadowrun group. I was one of the first shouting: YAY... But: They have the 4th edition books and want to play IT.

Ok, now i borrowed the books again and thought: Hm what was wrong with it again? I just power-read them, created a few chars and such. And..... well: Do you know the feeling when you have loved something as a child (or teenager) and you see a new improved ™ version of it and it is horrible? You know... this bad feeling on the heart, the cramped pressure on the chest?

I have the feeling they just made a new edition for the heck of it. They added nearly nothing and just took away...

Well, i have stomached it now, i think. And yes, it is still Shadowrun and i will play it (and i will like it - but i will try my best to get my GM to change many things back and to make MANYMANY houserules), but i have a few questions:

If you feel about the changes of 3rd to 4th edition the same as i, what did you change back (or kept)? What did you find objectable? What was an improvement over the older editions?

I for one will try to get the shamans and magicians seperated again, especially their spirits. I always liked the difference between their methods of summoning, and their different costs and uses.
Also i find the hardcap of attributes and skills... laughable. (Let's say a Initiated magician with power foci and stuff has a magic rating 12, he overcasts magic on power 15 or so... can pretty much explode houses at will... but he cannot give a human the strength of a troll?)

Initative: All people get their action in the FIRST initiative pass and AFTER that all faster people keep going? WHY??? It is completely possible (but unlikely), that an unmodified (but fast) guy can shoot a Move-by-Wire Dude in the face, before that dude can do anything. And after that he ceases to do anything, while the faster people do stuff. This is completely turned upside down.

The use of ONLY dices as modifiers. No open tests anymore, no modifiers to the difficulty? That takes so much sweet complexity and realism (And still isn't really a faster system now) This mechanic i completely dislike.

And many, many more things: Why is Move-By-Wire completeley harmless, better than wired reflexes but only a tiny bit more expensive? Why is a cyberzombie not so "bladder releasing" terrifying as a foe anymore? Where are the boosted reflexes? Why are the availabilities of gear like in a bad MMORPG? Why so many arbitary hardcaps? Why is the powerlevel of standard 400BP character so... strange? (I would say a normal 120 point character of SR3 would wipe the floor with a standard 400 BP Char... but maybe i am missing something?) To explain that a bit deeper: The range for attributes is still EXACTLY like in SR3 but all enhancements are now not as potent, as they can't stack and are limited by the natural value, also i can only invest 200 BP into it. which is barely enough to get a char over the norm for people on the street (everybodies and nobodies) While in SR3 you could (and most did) pack 60 points into attributes (4,4,4,6,6,6 anyone?) And could get boosted magically AND though tech, bio and chem.

The "vanishing" of elemental manipulation spells... which became the "indirect" combat spells.... this is just grrrr. (I wanted to make a sustained, aimable stream of elemental damage, it was possible in SR3, but now??? I work around it now with a kind of "elemental wall" spell, and hope the GM will take my solution.

Ah well, but i liked the splicing of Agi-Reflex and Logi-Intuition. Good move. And even if it isn't my taste (it... changes the feeling from the 1980ies future a bit into the future of today *g*) The wireless world and some technologies (like, maybe genetech) are a good addition.

P.S.
A question about character generation: Can i buy a skillgroup up to 3 for 30 points, then raise one skill (and destroy the group) to 4 for 4 points, and buy a specialisation for it then? (Lets just say, i like the logic of skillgroups, but find it strange that i can't buy specialisations for the included skills.

P.P.S
Why have some Archetypes more than 200 BP in attributes if it is clearly stated that 200 is max for 400BP chars. They break their own advisements... (Yeah i know the book is more of a guideline)

Ah well, i stop my rant now. Hi to all boardmembers, and sorry to have my first post be so late and... ranty.