Another short question: theoretically you should be able to create FFBA simply with the use of the above mentioned spell out of every regular armor. But the spell description only talks about "clothing", so what about military armor (mentioned in another section, theoretically doesn´t belong to "clothing") and what about clothing that would be e.g. too big for you? Does the spell cut the additional material off or does it use it another way (making a long coat out of a troll-armor-jacket that needs to be used for a human)? What do you think?

I ask, because I think a mage with this spell (as well as the "fix"-spell) could be a riggers or weaponssmith best friend. Maybe a way to get some extra cash during the runs...or even a way out of the shadows?^^

While I'd say you could use the fashion spell on military grade armor, you could not make FFBA out of other armor. Her's why: according to the description, the spell does not change the weight or protective value of the targetted clothing. So the changed armor would not get the encumbrance reduction of FFBA. You could however easily make an albeit heavy dinner jacket out of an armor jacket, or with enough hits military armor that looks like an Explorer Jumpsuit.

As for changing size, as a GM I would allow it, but AFAIK RAW neither supports nor denies it.

Fix is a lot less useful than you might think, contrary to fashion this spell has to beat the target's OR, and with SR4A this really isn't easy.

This might be a way out of the shadows, but successful runners, especially awakened ones, shouldn't have a problem getting out. The Corps are always looking for resourceful individuals. Whether they will do different things for the corps is another question. They might even continue to conduct clandestine operations but with better backup and pay but less freedom.

As the spell doesn't change the weight of the armor, i think it might be a bad idea to change your military armor into from fitting suit.

I would say no, as the spell description says that afterwards it must cover roughly the same amount of area.

Of course it isn´t simple, but when you cast "fix" you usually don´t stand under pressure, while a quite common spell like "impr. invis" has to get the same amount of hits and is used usually only when the shit hits the fan. So if i manage to achieve 6 successes when i cast illusions, i will have a proper chance to do the same at fixing.^^ And less usefull? Don´t know...you could e.g. take broken down motors or complete junkyard cars and make em run again, something a rigger can´t. And you don´t need a shop or tools to do so, therefore it´s perfect if your tires or something vital breaks down during a run, maybe in the wilderness.

The military armors are all tailored especially for the wearer, so that they at least don´t count like standard armor for encumberance (max. body*2), they can handle body * 3. This effect should be doable with this spell.

I just reread the description of Fix, and it is even worse than I thought. Not only do you have to beat the OR (5+ for any vehicle in SR4A) but you cannot affect most passenger vehicles at all, as you can only fix objects with a mass of Force x Hits. For a 2 ton vehicle (SUV) you would "only" need a force of 45 and 45 hits.
Every hit over the threshold "heals" one box of damage, and as with healing this can only be done once. Hardly much help for the Rigger/Grease Monkey.

You could probably disassemble the vehicle to use the spell on the parts, but how this would translate into repaired damage, i don't want to judge.

I wouldn't allow it, as it would change the properties (read game stats) of the item. As per the description this spell has only cosmetic effects.

I checked the desription and found two interesting descriptions in it:



We are talking about Form-FITTING-body armor, and the FIT of the clothes CAN be changed. So this should definitely apply.



It says approximately. Of course no jumpsuit to a bikini, but troll armor jacket into duster? Why not?

If you also took the text before the comma into account, you would understand my reasoning. 8/6 armor which can be worn without penalty by a person of BOD 3 because of the x3 has a highter protective value than normal 8/6 which can only be worn by characters with a BOD of 4 or greater without encumbering them.
The same goes for the extra rules of FFBA. Even if you transform your armor vest into a form fitting (notice the lack of capital letters) t-shirt, you still can't stack an armor jacket on top of it. Just as normally you would only get the armor value of the jacket and you would have to fight with an encumbrance of 14/10.

I interpret changing fit as the possibility to change leggings into baggy pants and vice versa, not size adjustments to get tangible benefits.

Fitting for a human or dwarf? Maybe, but the dwarf would not get any special benefits from the duster, such as better concealability of hidden items.

That was the intention.

I wouldn't allow the encumbrance decrease, as all spells that change the very nature of a target are resisted. On the other hand, if you use the optional rule for custom-fitting other armor, such armor would still have the x3 if the spell adjusts it to another user (of the same size category) or just makes it look different.

So you want a character to run around in what looks like FFBA/Duster but doesn't work like one? fine with me.

Naa, basically I want to purchase or steal security armor and make it available for my low-body-teammates. Especially the Hacker and the Mage should be well protected with their attribute.

Take it up with your GM. It's important to know what he allows.

How low are their bodies?
My BOD 4 mage has mundane armor of 11/9 without such tricks.

Body 2 for the hacker, 3 for the mage. They don´t have any skills that use physical attributes (except dodge), so they prefer to wear more armor, even if it hinders them.

Don't forget surprise and (physical) initiative tests. They are hindered by encumbrance as well. How high is their encumbering armor?

A mage in my group has Fashion spell, Fashion and Haute Couture knowledge skills and Armorer active skill to pull up tricks like making an armor jacket look like a form-fitting adequately. If he throws in the skills I let him customize the quality of for benefits like the concealability of a duster, depending on the kind of garment he's doing. Probably military armour performing like a form-fitting would malke me cringe if it were brought on the table, but with good justification I'd allow it. However since the innate properties of the material are being changed things like servos and movement helpers would stop working, making it unpractical. The has had fun launching a line of fashionable body armours that sometimes outperform those on the "legal" market and its become a trend to use a "Mordoch Original Duster" or "Armour Jacket" in the Shadows. This allowed them to earn some extra (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) on the side, besides the obvious applications of repairing damaged clothes, armour and such. Along with clean spell the group rarely hasa splatter on blood on their clothes after heavy gunfights... that is, if they don't keep bleeding.

Ending rant, my point is: I'd allow mods on armours depending on the skill set the character has, specially if this adds fluff to the campaign. Fluffy uses of rules are a Yay! no me, crunchy ones a Nay!. This managed to get into the fluffy side.

With fix I'd suppose something similar could be arranged.

They tried to use an armored jacket on the last run. Both have an agility of just 2, so our little helpers really need some alternatives.

Maybe the mage would like to go for the Increase BOD spell before upgrading his armor. IMHO this spell is far superior to the Armor spell, if you want to go for magical defense. And it let's you wear more mundane armor.

I'd really increase the hacker's BOD to at least 3.

Let's see if I can beat the armor jacket (8/6; -1 for the mage, -3 for the hacker)

FFBA Full body suit 6/2
Aces High Jacket 3/3
PPP Forearm guards 0/+1
PPP Shinguards 0/+1

with BOD 4 I added the vitals protector and the arm and leg casings (+1/+1 each) for a total of 11/9, It is not Full Body Armor but not bad either and totally legal. And you don't need a Body of 6 to wear it without being encumbered.

Total armor 9/7 encumbering as 6/6 so no penalty for the mage and -1 for the hacker. Not great but more than before and those two shouldn't be on the frontline in the first place.

Except for the hood this ensemble could even be worn in public without raising suspicion.

Oh and let the mage wear fatigues and an assault rifle. Chances are he won't be geeked first this way, especially if the combat monster is wearing "arcane" clothing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yeah, i will put the troll with the assault-cannon in an duster with arcane symbols. I´m sure the enemies will fall for that.^^

Thanks for the calculation. I will tell them to switch their basic armor (armor west) to your proposed one. The thing with the armor jacket only came up, because we had to take the armor we got in our hands. No choice for the poor runners.

One IP is all a mage needs sometimes.
No problem.

I have 3 IP´s with my mage and I´m pretty close to the edge of being not effective. Our enemies aren´t standing around in front of us so that i can blow them away with a manaball or something. The run for cover, start their sneaking and then you need a lot of phases to check where this wankers are. "you want to know where he is? no problem, make a perception-test" and *poof* one action-phase gone. And so on. Most of the time i try to coordinate my teammates, so that they stay in the range of my shielding and heal afterwards. I keep my mana mostly for encounters they can´t mess with (ghosts, etc.)

i'd only permit a mage to use Fashion to monkey with armour if he also had the armourer skill. Similarly, your Fashioned clothes will only be stylish if your mage has artisan. In my view, the spell allows you to work without tools, and far more quickly than a mundane.
Fix is broken as written. You can usually restore 2 or 3 boxes of damage with a high force spell, which is far from repaired for virtually anything, for a significant risk of drain. Making it work more like I see Fashion working (ie. Requiring the right repair skill) could be useful, or maybe just let it provide bonus dice, like heal does to long term medicine checks.

Why do you want to use this houserule? Do your mages need to know firearms to successfully cast indirect combat spells? Do they need Pilot Aircraft for Levitate? Do they need first aid to cast Heal? Do they need experience in special effects to properly create a (Trid) Phantasm?

It is magic not science. While magic duplicates technological/professional effects, they function differently, and thus there is no indication that knowledge in the mundane equivalent is necessary or even helpful.

Fix houserule suggestion: Remove the OR and require a force equal to or greater than the target's body/structure rating to affect it. And of course remove the weight maximum.

Alternative: Keep the OR, but determine the effect by gross hits not net hits. No weight maximum either.

I like the latter ones. Regarding the fashion spell, of course you should have a bit of style to shape the clothes in a proper form, but if i would have an approbriate skill that does the same, i would be an idiot by wasting karma either for the skill or the spell. The only thing a skill represents, is how something is done with the use of the approbriate tools. If i don´t have to use tools and therefore don´t need to know how to make special sewing-stitch, i don´t need that skill. Maybe you can tell him to have an approbriate knowledge skill so that the char. knows what is hot or not, but thats it. I would refuse to have such restrictions. Like Dakka Dakka said: it´s magic. That´s what its for.

An appropriate knowledge skill could indeed help if you actually want to create something fashionable. But if you just want to copy something or do color changes, there is no need for that IMHO.

Agree with that.

note that i said you need artisan if you want to make the clothes stylish. All the spell lets you do is change the clothe's shape and colour. The skill lets you know what would actually look good. The spell lets you make the changes quickly and without needing any tools, which is already a massive improvement. I don't see why a mage with no colour sense or appreciation of form should be able to rely entirely upon magic to make critically aclaimed works of wearable art. Copying something else is another issue altogether.
With regards armourer i feel on even stronger grounds. How is a mage with no grounding in how armour fits together supposed to know how to restructure a ballistic vest without compromising its integrity?
One could argue for a knowledge skill instead, and I would be receptive to that, but these are spells that physically make stuff. They aren't the same as flying or shooting.