Well, unlike Wolverine's claws, Shadowrun's implant weapons aren't made of adamantium. That's what makes his climbing trick work. Unlike adamantium claws, an implant spur isn't something that will punch through steel, plasteel, or ferrocrete like butter.

A spur is just a blade composed of a nifty, lightweight alloy. The metal itself is probably something our current (real world) technology could produce, so its unlikely to be able to punch through much of anything, a la Wolverine.

-paws

To clarify: As a GM, I allow people creative license to use their gear/implants/etc. in unusual ways, especially if used in dramatic ways.

For instance, I would allow someone with hand razors, especially a pair of them, to eliminate certain penalties for climbing certain surfaces.

Spurs wouldn't be great for climbing, but you could reasonably use them to stop or slow a fall.

Hand blades... I don't know... they're so weirdly positioned that they'd be hard to use them for much of anything except chopping. I guess you could probably convince me to allow you use them to stop or slow a fall.

What surfaces would qualify would be decided on a case by case basis. A glass building? Not Likely. A tree or concrete wall. Almost certainly. And so on.

Aren't there even special climbing claw implants which are just bent nail knives in augmentation?
If you add a poison reservoir to cyber weapons they can be pretty nasty really, oh and since Molly Millions nail knifes are a must for any gilette anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yes, there are. STR/2 P and +2 dice to climbing.

Another point for the cyberweapons: you cannot benefit from bone lacing when you strike with a cyberlimb.

You can't?
Is that written down somewhere?
In SR3 the rules explicitly stated that you got the full benefit, if you only had one or two complete limbs replaced.

"Cyberlimbs cannot hold any bioware, nor any cyber-implants that take up Essence rather than Capacity."

That does it for me. So if you have both bone lacing and cyberlimbs, the lacing only cover the non-replaced parts. Since there is nothing to prevent it, you should still benefit from the extra soak dice, but when you attack you have to choose which weapon to use. With only 1 cyber arm, you can still choose to strike with the other.

Only works if you're leading an Attack with the cyber-limb.
If you are not specifically hitting someone with your tricked out Arm, you are performing "A Series of hits, kicks, feints and Maneuvers" utilizing your whole body, thus getting the Bonus from the laced Bones in the Rest of your Meatback

However, if you've got your cyberarm tricked out for extra agility and strength, you only get to use those higher stats for your attack if you're attacking with said arm. A Cyberspur in that arm definitely does work with that attack. Titanium Bone Lacing... you're having to hope the GM is feeling generous

The part you quote is nice fluff, but it doesn't have any piece of rule inside. There are so many questions it should answer:
- do you suffer from off-hand penalty?
- in case of a cyber arm and a meat arm, do you inflict Stun or Physical damage? How about side effects like shock hands?
- do you average the Strength of your limbs for damage?
- how about a mixed attack with a knife and a bare hand? Or a different weapon in each hand? What you have quoted is not specific to unarmed combat, but is valid for all melee combat.

Without an answer to any of those, I find it better to leave it as fluff and determine a leading arm as for any melee weapon.

hi hi

I can certainly see why someone would get a cyber-implant weapon if they didn't have bone lacing or bone density. This dilemma was more for those who already got it for the body bonus.

Perhaps bone density/lacing strengthens one's nails and teeth anyway, allowing for attacks thematically similar to implant weapons, since they're pretty much the same as far as mechanics go.

An ancillary question to this one is: Is there any reason to get cyber-implant blades other than spurs? It doesn't seem like hand razors are any less detectable, which makes me wonder what Molly Millions was thinking.

There's a little different Essence and nuyen cost...other than that, not really. Just depends on what you think looks coolest.

- for what? it is your own hand O.o
- Cyber-Arm gives you the physical damage as far as i remember.
- Yes, as long as you are not specifically leading with a single cyber-limb, you ALLWAYS average.
- There are rules for two weapon style fighting, but those don't apply to UNARMED combat. And you don't use unarmed anymore as soon as you have a weapon in use that is not a kind of glove.
does not matter if you are using one knife or 8 knives, you are now not using your unarmed combat but your blade weapons skill.

You'd think that cyberarms would deal Physical, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of GMs house-ruled this to be the case, but by default, they don't change unarmed damage at all (aside from any changes caused by differences in strength between your normal arm and your cyberarm). Rather odd, having metal in your hands makes them deal physical, as does having metal around your hands. But having a metal hand doesn't.

As much as I like what they've done with cyberlimbs in this edition (compared to previous editions, at any rate, they don't suck so hard)...it is pretty ridiculous to me that they haven't even presented that as an optional rule.

Wasn't that fixed in an Errata or SR4,5?

Well, if you are a Blood Mage, it is always handy to have a blade that simply can not be taken away, not to mention the Foci aspect that has been mentioned for Adepts already.

Much better question would be the one about why there are NON RETRACTABLE Versions of these Things.

OK. I just re-read this one and it's very unclear : the malus only talks about melee weapons, but it talks about "the melee weapon" as if there was always one. I have always thought the malus also applied to unarmed attacks. The Off-hand training maneuver from Arsenal is even weirder: why bother to state that it cannot be bought for Unarmed if it would be useless anyway?

They don't give anything, they have their own damage rating which is STR/2 P. It's the same for bone lacing that has its own STR/2 + x P damage code. It's important because it makes your view impossible to express within the rules. You are saying that bonus can stack from different arm enhancements, but there is no bonus to stack.

Anyway, let us assume you are right, and a cyber arm grants physical damage. Why would I be forced to use it since I have a normal arm too? Of course, I could lead the attack with my normal arm, but then I lose the Strength bonus. However, since the STR is averaged, it means both arms contribute to a normal attack, so why can't I select to inflict Stun rather than Physical? And why is there no rule for that at all, if it is supposed to be allowed?

For more fun, you can add a shock hand on the unaugmented hand. Now one of the hands has a damage code unrelated to STR. How much damage does the combination deal? Physical or Stun ? With or without Electric side effect? Where are the rules to sort this out?

Once again, the text you are using as a support does not make any difference between unarmed and armed combat. Either it is a rule and it is valid for both, or it is just fluff.

And some of the rules for dual wielding also apply to unarmed combat. The multiple attack, for example. Unarmed multiple attacks are allowed in the base book. Multiple attacks with 2 melee weapons are covered by the Arsenal rules (the only adding here is the case of different skills), but this would not apply to a multiple attack with a melee weapon and the other hand at the same time? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

You are going about this all wrong:
You presume to use logic and stuff!
It's rules. They are arbitrary balanced.
If you have a Stun-Hand, you either do Electrical stun or your Clobbering Stun Damage.
Never a Mix, never both. If you have the ability to use P Damage, that does not mean you HAVE to, as far as i remember.
If it's a blunt weapon(yes, Hands/Arms and othe rassorted limbs in my eyes), then you either use it to Hit hard to Cause stun, or you use it to hit REAL HARD to do Physical.
Of course, if you don't say what you want, the GM might decide. 2 Hand Combat is only for Combat with melee weapons that are not used with the unarmed combat skill.
allways has been the case, never been written like that anywhere.
If you use one knife in one hand, you use your knife skill. Next time you use your unarmed skill without having dropped the knife. But you don't get stabby damage.

Which rules are you talking about? Just quote them, it will be easier for everyone, except you might have a hard time finding them in any book. Especially the part that explains how to compute damage from unbalanced arms.

I didn't find anything like that within the rules. How could it be? There is no weapon classification as blunt / piercing / slashing. The way you could do that within the rules is by limiting your number of hits to keep the DV below the opponent's armor. Only I don't remember if you may always reduce your number of hits. In SR3 you had a malus for trying that in combat.

Here I feel you are contradicting yourself.

Setting 1 : 1 bone laced arm, 1 cyber arm
Setting 2 : 1 shock glove, 1 cyber arm

You claim both settings use the same rules, but in setting 2 I must choose which arm deals the damage and in setting 1 I can stack bonus from the 2? Where is the rule that governs that?

Rules As Unwritten? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) What makes you so sure you haven't made everything up if it's not written anywhere? Especially when the other solution works without having to add anything to RAW?

You always have to choose between doing a normal unarmed attack and using a shock glove/hand.

I completely agree with you. My questions are: why should it work differently for setting 1? If so, where are the rules that explain how Setting 1 works?