Just remember - the inexpensive camera neutralizer can knock-out a smartgun's gun-cam just as with any other camera. Make it widespread among higher-end security forces and the corner shooting will become a problem of the past.

Ahh, there we go, a counter besides trying to shoot the weapon in question, nice! Er, wait a sec, is that in something other than the SR4 BBB? I am having some trouble finding it, it doesn't show up in the index of my book.

Oh, while looking for it I did find some other stuff here that seemed to suggest shooting around corners as well on pave 324: Mage Sight Goggles ("shooting" spells) and Periscope - "An L-shaped tube with two mirrors, the periscope allows the user to look (or shoot) around corners. Hmm, that Endoscope would be fun to for looking under doors like when playing Sam Fisher in Splinter Cell.

It is pretty important to see/hear/smell/feel the opposition before they see you, yes?

The camera neutralizer is in Arsenal. If you want to have real fun with it, remember that cybereyes are electronic cameras too... but that's whole 'nother thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah. The main advantage of things like these and smartguns as regards corner shooting is that you can actually aim to some degree instead of having to spray and pray (i.e., fire blind with the full -6 penalty) like you would unassisted. The specific two you mention above are great for magicians because they can't use any sort of video system (like smartguns) for spell targeting, but purely optical means (fibre optics, mirrors, etc.) are totally kosher.

Put it this way if you take two guys one with a regular submachine gun with laser sight and the other with the cornershot. They go at it in a straight gun fight with no corners. But the cornershot guy can only use his screen to acquire and aim at the target. Would:

A) They are just as effective.
B) The guy with the regular gun is more effective than the guy that has to use the LCD screen.
C) The guy with the LCD screen is more effective than the guy shooting normally.

If the answer is A, then you are right, there shouldn't be any modifiers for using the smartgun around corners.
If the answer is C, then maybe we should make all of our military infantry shoot using only LCD screens rather then their own eyes.
If the answer is B, then yes there should be some kind of penalty when you are using the smartgun around corners.

I'd go with A, but not for the reason you've offered. The smartgun compensating for the guncam-aiming makes both combatants receive a net +1 from their gear. Keep in mind, you can use a periscope or mage sight goggles to peek around a corner without a smartgun, so "firing from cover" being an independent -1 penalty makes sense.

Are you picking A because that is what the rules say or are you looking at the cornershot gun Stahlseele was referring to on the prev page?

I didn't even watch the video. The RAW are thoroughly vague, so we're left with the old standbys of "is this stupid" and "is this fun?" Basically, a guncam being one of many ways to peek around a corner makes sense, as does the smartgun's bonus offsetting the penalty.

You should all check out Future weapons season 3 episode 9, it has Intelligent Optical System Aimfinder that nicely demonstrates how gun-cam can be used to fire from cover.

Unfortunately it seems my Google-Fu is not up to the task, would you happen to have a link to the video? I did find descriptions of the episode however, but they contained little more detail than your own description.

Sadly no, i spent almost an houer looking for a video at youtube bewore posting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
But here's a link to IOS website Aimfinder is descripted in the las paragraph.

Ahh...



Interestingly enough, look at the smartgun description again:



I'll leave out the additional descriptions on Smartlink, (Eye) Contacts, and Skinlink but they strike me as pretty similar. Especially pay special attention to the use of the underlined. Still, if you don't want to have to 'cut the pie' with your arm tracking, thus exposing that limb, the corner shot previously mentioned would be the way to stand back from a corner slightly and still do your thing.

Hmm, unfortunately the Periscope previously mentioned in the BBB that I found says it can be used for shooting around a corner but since it doesn't confer a +2 bonus like the Smartgun system, it still incurs a -1 penalty from shooting from cover? At least you don't get hit with the -6 for Target hidden (blind fire), right? *shrug*

Have you ever used a periscope in real life? It has no targeting software; it just lets you look around corners.

Yup! Periscopes are fun, I recall making them when I was younger. My intention was only ask if it was accurate to remove blind fire in the cases of the smartgun/periscope. I ask only because I want to be sure when presenting my character accurately getting the drop on some security heading for our position or knowing what is going on around a corner without having to expose my pretty elven head. Not trying to argue against rules, just gain a better understanding them so I get on with the role playing of a criminal who shoots things for a living.

OK, a couple of thoughts:

1) You are limited on an INTERNAL smartlink by the capacity of the weapon to no more than six (6) vision enhancements, so the "Thermal/Low-light/Flare-comp/Image-mag" gun with the "improved rangefinder" option only leaves you a single modification space to play with. An EXTERNAL SmartGun has foue (4) slots, per Unwired. Choose your enhancements carefully.

2) The camera neutralizer is indeed another thread, however flare compensation should partly offset that. And we get back to "why doesn't it affect normal eyes?" but that's that other thread again. I think the item is miserably written and statted.

3) The AimPoint system above is a LOT closer to a SmartGun than many people may realize because it takes care of image rotation, which can SERIOUSLY disorient the user in the heat of battle. Another weapon that is approaching smartgun technology is the ballistic computer used with Barrett's new sniper rifle, which takes into account air pressure, humidity, bullet spec, barrel wear, distance to target, cross winds, and planetary rotation. Combine the two and add more sensors to detect things like barrel droop due to heating and now we're playing Shadowrun.

4) The way I have always imagined the effect of a SmartGun was that it compared the view in the user's field of view to the picture in the gun camera and used that as a means to throw a crosshairs in the user's field of view indicating barrel direction relative to sight. Combine with an angle rate sensor on the weapon and you can predict where those rounds will land and shift the aforementioned crosshairs to create a LCOS (Lead-Computing Optical Sight). In other words, it shows you where your rounds will probably impact if you were to pull the trigger at that given moment. So the idea would be to use your hand (holding the weapon) to bring the computed impact point onto your desired target and pull the trigger.

Even with my (very computer reliant) vision mentioned in #4 above, being deprived of the user's field of vision means it is down to "shooting by camera" and that's not as effective. Having the effect of the SmartGun reduced to an effective net +1 would suit me just fine.

Anyhow, that's my thinking.

You know what? I have just realized that the firing from cover modifier has changed from -1 to -2 in SR4A.

Seriously?! Drek. You would think they would have mentioned that one little "minor" change in the "changes" doccument.

They have.

Was wondering if uncompensated recoil shoud also be doubled for shooting around corners as it is easily possible that one would be holding thier gun in a less than optimal firing position.

Sweet, then you could do that with a minigun and get a penalty of 42. You're just as likely to win the lottery as hit anything, so either way you're a winner!

Then you would probably get killed by your own pals who don't want to catch a lost bullet.

First, they'll have to penetrate my sphere of APDS rounds traveling in all directions simultaneously. Mua ha ha.

LLOL! Suddenly I had the image of my can't-hit-a-thing loves-old-movies 2 agility mage casting levitate and grabbing a minigun. Later on, when asked what the hell he was thinking, he'd reply "Dude! Don't you remember the old Starfighter movie? That was my Death Blossom! It was SO TOTALLY AWESOME!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

And if I recall, the consensus in the other thread was that there's no way such an inexpensive piece of gear as the camera neutralizer should be able to blind any combatants equipped with cybereyes indescriminately. At the very least, flare compensation should provide some protection. Ideally, cybereyes should be completely immune from being blinded by the camera neutralizer.



It'd be a houserule, but I wouldn't have a problem with doubling all recoil when shooting around a corner. But as long as you have less than 100% cover, recoil modifiers would work as normal. If you're firing an automatic weapon with the axis of recoil not in line with your shoulder/arm, the gun would get hideously hard to control real fast.

Actually, there is/was some dissention. By RAW, cybereyes are cameras. Many people - including those that normally go for RAW over RAI - still voiced how they felt about this it, but that doesn't alter the RAW that something intended take out cameras can take out cameras mounted in eye sockets. And your ideal treatment of it is nonsensical and inconsistant with how the device operates. I will concede that flare compensation should have some interaction with the system, but I don't fe it should nullify it.