Ok, lets explain it like this, being lit up like a fragging Christmas Tree on the astral is akin to waltzing through the seedy part of town flaunting a bunch of expensive "yuppy jewery", only worse. It shouts that you are a Mage to anything checking the astral, allows Mages to track your Astral Fingerprint, and if I remember correctly even lets them pop your pretty little foci. Oh, and did I forget to mention Background Count?

Those boxes of drain keep adding up.

And your DM has every right to require you to make an addiction test if your character is continually using foci, just as he has every right to force an addiction test if you keep doing drugs, and yes, it is the DM's job to "make up numbers" when necessary.

Oh how dramatic! Let's go over this one more time:

1. It takes exactly one net hit on an assensing test to tell if you are mundane or awakened. I think if someone is astrally perceiving you, it no longer matters if you have spell on your person or not - they know you're awakened. Besides, having an active spell on your person does not mean your a mage per se - just that you know one.

2. What is this bad part of town you are referring too? Are there astral ghettos? If we know we're in an astral ghetto wouldn't we want to appear powerful?

3. Astral signatures? really? You mean someone looking directly at you may recognize your aura if they see your signature again? Which they can do anyway with or without a spell on your person? That is hardly a good reason to fear sustaining a spell on yourself.

4. You can't use a signature to track a mage. Page 193, SR4a: "Active spells are linked to their casters, spirits are linked to their casters, astrally projecting mages are linked to their physical bodies, and foci and magical lodges are linked to the magicians who activated them." So what do Astral signatures do? They allow a mage to recognize a signature if they see it again by that same mage. Which of course if they're looking directly at your astral form already doesn't give them any more evidence than they would otherwise have. Spare me.

5. You are remembering incorrectly.

6. Boxes of drain add up? No they don't. Here's a number: three seconds. How long it takes to use first aid to heal a box of stun damage. You're welcome.

7. The DM has every right to be a sanctimonious prick, doesn't mean that he should be. If you did not receive bonus bp from taking a negative quality, than yes, requiring an addiction test every time you use a focus is a dick thing to do. I would stop playing that game in a heartbeat.

( 1 ) Assencing someone is akin to going through a pat down, it takes time and isn't likely to come up that often, however people who glow on the Astral are going to be singled out for that special treatment.

( 2 ) Yes there are "bad parts" of the Astral and no, you don't want to attract the scary things that can eat your soul. However you have completely missed my point, so I'll restate it more plainly. Glowing like a fragging Christmas Tree on the Astral attracts attention that you do not want when you are busy engaging in illegal acts.

( 3 & 4 ) You've actually stumbled onto a couple of good points, touche'.

( 5 ) Wrong, via Street Magic active foci are "dual natured astral constructs", which means that they are perfectly viable targets and can be popped.

( 6 ) Uh-huh, and I'm sure that you are always going to be able to take the time to dig out your medkit, set it up, and then use first aid on yourself whenever you take drain.

( 7 ) And my reply would be a hearty "Good Ridance." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) Seriously though, foci are clearly meant to be drugs for Mages so treating their usage as drugs makes sense. Would you also bitch when your DM asked for an addiction test to Jazz or Longhaul?

I have seen flashlights made in game. It is an empty handle (no need for batteries of course) with a hollow end, lined with mirrors to reflect light out the front. The 'bulb' (which can be anything) has an reusable anchoring spell attached to it with a force 1 light spell. The drain is so miniscule, flicking it on and off is almost guaranteed to not drain you. Once it is on the anchor sustains it until you flick it off. Totally worth 1 karma if you ask me.

Also, you could simply anchor the light spell and have a mechanical valve on the front that seals off the light when you are not using it, so it kind of twists on and off. Great way to make a permanent light without any drain etc.

There are tons of neat ways to make use of low force quickened or anchored spells. For example, a force 1 levitate spell cast on a skateboard makes an excellent hoverboard (a la Back to the Future II (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A nice force 2 darkness spell is fantastic for infected or others who are injured by sunlight. Anchor to a small object, then put it in your pocket when you want it to go away (or if you dont treat it as an emenating darkness, then a reusable anchor or sustaining foci).

A force one mind link anchored to friendship braclets can make for a neat magic walkie-talkie. (range permitting)

A force 1 astral barrier on a sustaining foci makes a great barrier/spirit detector. May not stop anything, but you will know if anything gets within a certain radius of you, without having to make detection rolls.


Also, remember... dont get power greedy. Just because your team took down a mage and you found a force 6 power focus does NOT mean you have to bond it. Trade it to your Talismonger for cash and some lower level gear. A magic item of great power is expensive to bond (therefore sucky to lose), brings alot of attention on the astral plane (even advanced masking has its limits) and attracts powerhungry drekheads from all over who want to take it from you. Might as well wear the Pink Panther diamond on a Tiara on your forehead!

I'm still really partial to Increase Body --> Shapechange into a rhino for combat. Can't beat that huge strength gain plus armor.

Detection spells are a runner's friend. Clairvoyance or else the version that lets you cast across mana barriers is pretty much essential in my groups (more so than Stunbolt/Manabolt).

Wreck(Wall or furniture) or Interference is pretty fun to do some battlefield control. Ditto with the "wall" spells. Had a player cast a physical barrier behind a gang so that when they tried to run from the team they ran into it and were subsequently gunned down. Very nasty.

Levitate is great for all those idiots who don't bother putting points into Climbing and likewise for Oxygenate. Levitate absolutely destroyed one of my runs once. They had to break into an ultra-secure S-K high-rise apartment to get at an S-K Prime johnson on the 40th floor. Mage levitated up, Influenced him out onto the balcony then levitated him down. Easy peasy.

Honestly, after getting Masking and Centering, the best thing you can do as a mage is plow all your Karma into spells. So many yummy tools for those awkward occasions.

1. I doubt they will get much more special treatment than just knowing you are a full mage, which 1 success gets them. Mages are rare enough you can give extra special treatment to every one that walks through your door.

2. You glow on the astral when you are doing your job as team mage, you know sustaining spells like physical mask, levitate etc. A focus isn't adding much to your christmas tree effect while on the job.

5. Good for them they can be taken out, of cource this is moot if you take octopii's sugesation and have enhance masking.

6. Its 1 point of drain suck it up princess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

7. Um no. The only guideline we have is in digital grimoire and its make a test if your active focuses force total is more than twice your magic rating. 1 force 4 focus aint going to do it. Using it but not abusing it should not get a addiction test.

( 1 ) Uh-huh, pray tell how do "they" know to Assense you in the first place IF you aren't glowing on the Astral? Assensing takes time and can't be done to everyone at once.

( 2 ) Which is one of the reasons that mages should use mundane methods whenever feasble, plus glowing isn't quite as dangerous when you do so sparelingly as opposed to all of the fragging time.

( 5 ) Hmm, a couple of things, firstly I've double checked and Octopiii hasn't said word one about Extended Masking in this thread, secondly you are talking about earning an advanced metamagic when there are so many more useful ones out there. And don't forget that Extended Masking isn't foolproof, sure it's unlikely that your viel would get pierced, but it only takes once.

( 6 ) As I've said before, those points of drain add up.

( 7 ) And I would argue that having an foci active all of the time is indeed abusing it. Foci should be used spareingly.

That is not one success on a Perception test - all you get from that is the knowledge that an astral aura is walking by - a living being, a spell, a spirit, and so forth. What you need to detect a mage with no active spell or foci is one success on an ASSENSING test. Per SR4p182, you cannot make an assensing test unless you Observe in Detail on the aura while astrally perceiving - which is a targeted simple action. You do not have time to Observe in Detail every person you pass, which is why deactivating your foci and spells allows you to blend into the crowd even when astrally observed.

I always thought that drain damage can only be healed by resting, no other way. Maybe i mixed it up with the regeneration power or the heal spells. If i´m wrong, this would be great. So please disprove me.^^

Drain damage can be healed by everything EXCEPT magical means (Regeneration, the Heal spell). First Aid Kits work just fine.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA....great...wait...i need the first-aid-skill....damn.^^

@RedeemerofOgar (and the rest participating in this facet of the discussion):

Sure, you're not going to get Observe In Detail'd too much walking around buying your groceries, but hell, if I were just doing that, I wouldn't mind looking badass. When you go anywhere interesting, though, like through security checkpoints (or even past most doormen who aren't drug-addled) you will get a good hard look, including an astral one if there's someone to look at that (and there could be; I can name two drugs that let mundanes astrally perceive).

But... so? As long as you have a fake license attached to your fake SIN, you're fine to carry around foci, as none of them are Forbidden. It's like carrying around a pistol, only you can't hide it; if you're somewhere you're allowed to be, it's fine, and if you're somewhere you're not allowed to be, having a pistol isn't going to be your biggest problem. The only time it'd be an issue (socially, I mean; mana barriers and BG counts will still pose issues) is when you're going somewhere where you have to check your weapons/foci at the door, and that's what Extended Masking is for.

And, honestly, every spell an enemy mage uses to pop my foci is one he isn't using to pop me. I'd have to problem with that at all. They'd roll rating + counterspelling, right?

Everyone keeps talking about how glowing on the astral is a bad thing because other mages can see you. What no is mentioning is that there are things that live and hunt on the astral. Things that can't affect you unless you are on their turf, so to speak. Things that probably won't notice you if you occasionally use magic / foci, but will if you are constantly glowing like a christmas tree.

Then what good are they? I don't think they were meant to be used as a drug for mages, especially since the addiction quality for Foci wasn't added until Street Magic. I think that the little "they are addicting" rule was pretty much just added to give a little extra danger and flavor to the game.

Also, PirateChef, so there are things on the Astral Plane, big whoop. There are things on the Material/Physical plane (whatever you want to call it) that are trying to end me too. In my opinion, SHadowrunners are naturally aware of as many threats as possible, it's how they survive. And its not like you can't put up a fight when wither the astral or physical enemies start hunting.

I think what it really comes down to is how you and your GM play the game. For instance, I like to play a "pure" mage, no cyberware, and barely even a spare weapon. It's my style, and I like it, so deal with it. Others like to add some stuff to their mages, fine, let them. My GM also doesn't care too much that I have a summoning focus that I use all the time, because in his eyes, it is just a tool, like a wrench or screwdriver, and not meant to be a drug. We don't get addiction tests when we shoot guns constantly do we? Other GMs may require addiction tests each time a focus is used, and hey, if that's how they play, fine by me.

Personally, I'm fine being lit up like a christmas tree on the Astral Plane, because I don't light up on the Physical Plane, that's what our Street Sammy is for. If I'm careful, I'll survive. If I'm not careful, or just unlucky, I can roll up a new character. The main thing I try to keep in mind is that it is just a game and I'm just trying to have fun hanging out with my friends.

The difference is that as a mage you have a choice of wether or not to be on the astral plane. You do not have a choice to be on the physical.

As a shadowrunner, one of my basic creeds is to minimize the threats to me. If I can do that by not constantly being a giant beacon on the astral, I will do so. That means one less thing to deal with.

Once I get to a point where I have Extended Masking, things change (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, and generally the threats on the physical are a bit easier to deal with. Whereas some of the astral threats can be quite devastating, especially when the rest of the team can't do anything but stare at you as you slowly die.

Ok, I can understand where that's coming from, but personally, I don't see that as being a reason to not try and aid your magical abilities by "lighting up like a christmas tree". Minimizing risk is good, but many times, taking those risks comes with other benefits.
Make myself more obvous on the Astral lpane, be able to cast spells better, it's all in weighing the pros and cons. Personally, I will continue using my Foci, because they are incredibly useful to me, and when I finally run up against someting I might not be ablt to handle, it will be noone's fault but my own.

Also, I hope you mean the physical threats are easier to handle only because you usually have the rest of your team to rely on, because I have seen some crazy shit go down when my GM is itchin' to burn us....

Oh I agree. When it's time to party, I come dressed to party. But normally I leave the heavy foci at home, much like sams should leave the assault cannon at home.

And yeah, I generally meant b/c the party can't help, though there are a few things on the astral that far outstrip anything in the physical (some free spirits, FAB...) Though the biggest threats are generally dual natured (Great Dragons, Cthulu...)

Ugh...Cthulhu....Now I completely regret playing a mage....that is just NOT something I'm ever going to look forward to fighting....*shudder*

McAllister the problem is that unless you are willing to force people to wait in line and take the time to Assense everyone one person at a time the odds are that anyone that isn't glowing is not going to be noticed as a Mage. And active foci are always going to be a reason to hassle the Mage moreso than usual, at the very least a "Sir, please deactivate your foci."

Also I might be misremembering, but I'm fairly sure that counterspelling like sorcery is limited to the plane which you are currently active on, but either way, astral combat would be the better way to pop your foci as opposed to spells.

Mr. Mage even with enforcing the addiction rules foci are still an excellant tool for Mages, they are meant to be used when you need that extra little boost, but not as security blankets that are used all of the time. Also I seriously doubt that someone who uses a ( Force 4 ) Sustaining Focus to get their extra IPs is only using a single foci.

1. If they are anyone that matters they are assensing you because that is there job. And pretty much anyplace you are trying to get into and have to worry about people even looking at you on the astral will have you form into lines or something. And it really does not take much time you can easily assense people as they stream past.

2. Despite the Christmas tree claims you aren't shooting off flares, the mage has to have a reason to look for you in the first place. Which means in most cases you are already found out or he will be assensing you and seeing shit tons of cyber on your friends and a magicians aura on you.

5. So it was some one other than Octopiii, and this is a really bad assed metamajic. Saving essence is indeed worth it.

6. 1 less magic due to bioware adds up more.

7. The few rules on the subject would disagree with you. But hey if you want to overuse a rule in order to make something virtually worthless go for it.

Away from the subject of go/no go for lighting up the astral, my favorite combo (that I've yet to even try since I play the game as a player so rarely) is a dual spell combo.

First, assense a group of opponents. Best to do while invisible or while projecting (another good reason to project, you'll rarely bump into a group of security guards who can astrally perceive--at least not in the front lines of security).

Second, use your assencing skill to fined the guy with the lowest body score (this is important for two reasons).

Third, cast petrify to turn the weak man out to stone! If you target the lowest body strength guy in the squad he'll have the least chance of getting successes against you.

Fourth, quicken the spell! This will make the guy stone forever. Since you went with the weak guy, he'll have the lowest body and you'll need to spend as little karma as possible to pull this off.

Fifth, next cast animate to move the statue about. You have a mini-stone golem at your dispossil! Since the petrify spell only affects living tissue his armor is still in place and will offer him even more resistence against bullets and such.

Finally, have a spirit sustain the spell for you! The higher the spirit's force the longer it'll last but it should be long enough to scare/injure the opposition and make a name for you as a bad @$$ on the streets. If you pay some karma into this you can use Long Term Binding and have your own pet golem for a year and a day. AWESOME!!!

Just my idea.

Sign--

Wacky

That's what this goddamn thread is about, sir. Let's see some more of that.

Yeah, sorry about that. We kind of hi-jacked this thread.

In my years of playing Shadowrun, I have seen and heard many things. This is one of the best. I salute you.

My god, that is incredibly creative... I am definitely going to try that one out now....as soon as I get petrify that is...hehehe...

So far, the most creative use I've gotten out of magic was when I summoned a Force 12 Earth Elemental. That means a 16 on both Body and Strength, which is 32 base dice when rolling for any action that requires physical exertion (breaking down a door, or bracing one, or possibly lifting things). I prettymuch just had him lifting and throwing cars and whatever else he could find as a means of distracting the bad guys....mass mayhem ensued.