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> How to Restrain an adept, tie them up, tag them, bag them, notify nearest kin
Garou
post Sep 3 2009, 07:49 PM
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Well, i noticed that adepts are quite powerful (duh) and therefore the law enforcement has to have a way to keep them in arrest and containment. So... is there something like a Magecuff and Hood for an adept, something that gives them a nasty shock if they even try to use his adept powers? Would Magecuffs work?

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Bugfoxmaster
post Sep 3 2009, 07:55 PM
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Put it this way. Adepts really don't do anything DIFFERENT than what a non-awakened street sam with a bunch of ware does. He just does it differently. And on top of that, an adept comes in all sorts of flavors, from gunbunny adepts to the pornomancer, who you wouldn't have arrested, because he's too persuasive.
Thus, you'd deal with an adept like you would any other person in that role - a physical or gun adept you'd stun, disarm, cuff with the plasteel restraints or the cyberware-limiting restraints, and so on. A social adept you'd shoot before he opened his mouth. A mystic adept you could deal with like a mage, with a magemaks and magecuffs. But realistically, I don't see that you'd need to 'shut down their magic' or whatever. Maybe fill their cell with a mana static at force 2 or 3, to limit their options.
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the_real_elwood
post Sep 3 2009, 08:24 PM
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Adepts do have some unique powers that can't be replicated with 'ware, but for the most part they're really not overpowered compared to the street sam. Like Bugfoxmaster said, it's just a different mechanic to achieve a similar result. A lot of the adept powers are always active and simply give a bonus to certain things, so rather than just disabling those powers, put the adept in a stronger cage.

It's the magicians you really have to worry about, because they can do some pretty damaging stuff regardless.
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Garou
post Sep 3 2009, 09:22 PM
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Is there a way to detect them beforehand then? Sammies can generally be detected by MAD scanning.
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X-Kalibur
post Sep 3 2009, 09:24 PM
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They are magically active, which means they should give off an aura on the astral plane. Then you have assensing.
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Garou
post Sep 4 2009, 03:11 AM
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i Don't think mages are common enough to be garrisoned at each higher security checkpoint... or are they?
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Medicineman
post Sep 4 2009, 03:47 AM
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1 % is Awakend
> than Half is an Adept,less than 0,5 % are Mages
about 1/3 of these are Hermetik,1/3 Schamanistic and 1/3 for all the other Traditions
A Lot only have limited Abilities (MAG <3)
Some never developed their Talent or became Insane
Most of the Awakened work for the Cons .....
So there are a very,very Few of them

with a seldom Dance
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Crusher Bob
post Sep 4 2009, 05:19 AM
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This site says that as a percentage of general population medical doctors make up around .29% (~3/10ths of one percent). So the number of doctors is probably comparable to the number of full power mages (magic stat of 3+).

Also, you don't use mages at security checkpoints, they have much better things to do with their time. You use critters with astral perception like awakened geese (for nice and fluffy checkpoints, and stuff like hell hounds for the tougher and scarier checkpoints.

If necessary, an astral mage can then respond quickly to the scene after something interesting is detected.
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toturi
post Sep 4 2009, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Sep 4 2009, 05:24 AM) *
They are magically active, which means they should give off an aura on the astral plane. Then you have assensing.

Don't most if not all living beings have auras? IIRC it is astral signature that the magical active leave behind when they use their powers. Depending on GM, it could mean that adepts always leave a trail of astral signatures or they hardly ever leave an astral signature.
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Tyro
post Sep 4 2009, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Sep 3 2009, 11:42 PM) *
Don't most if not all living beings have auras? IIRC it is astral signature that the magical active leave behind when they use their powers. Depending on GM, it could mean that adepts always leave a trail of astral signatures or they hardly ever leave an astral signature.

My impression was that someone with stronger magic projects a stronger/more vibrant aura, but I can't quote anything to back it up.
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Crusher Bob
post Sep 4 2009, 07:36 AM
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You can tell someone is awakened with just one hit on assensing. How powerful they are requires somethign like 3 or 4 hits. See P183.

From what I remember, external adept powers like killing hands, natural spell, etc leave a signature. But 'internal' stuff (as most adept powers are) don't.
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darthmord
post Sep 4 2009, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Sep 4 2009, 02:36 AM) *
You can tell someone is awakened with just one hit on assensing. How powerful they are requires somethign like 3 or 4 hits. See P183.

From what I remember, external adept powers like killing hands, natural spell, etc leave a signature. But 'internal' stuff (as most adept powers are) don't.


I've always interpreted it as Adept powers leave a signature where the power was in effect. Killing hands thus would leave a signature on the target. Rapid Healing would leave its signature on the adept's body... within his own aura (good luck seeing that signature IMO). The same would apply to things like enhanced senses, Improved attributes, Attribute Boost, etc.

Just my 0.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
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StealthSigma
post Sep 4 2009, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (Garou @ Sep 3 2009, 05:22 PM) *
Is there a way to detect them beforehand then? Sammies can generally be detected by MAD scanning.


A MAD scanner wouldn't detect the difference between an adept and a bio-augmented sammie.....
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Chrysalis
post Sep 4 2009, 03:36 PM
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FAB would.
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Stahlseele
post Sep 4 2009, 04:23 PM
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Do it the Jesus Way. Cross him up something fierce.
Else break thumbs and bind together
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Screaming Eagle
post Sep 4 2009, 06:38 PM
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*BLAM!!!! BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!!!*
He was resisting arrest.
There are time when I realise I'm not playing the same game as some of the other people here... this looks like one of those times.

What I'd have most police do to "restain" an adept character that is resisting is the same thing they do to anyone they run into brandishing a weapon of unknown calibur (could be a toy, could be sporting cop-killer rounds), aim for centre mass and pull the trigger. Repeat until satisfied with results. In the 6th world "Shoot first and ask questions later" isn't a grim joke, it procedure.

Even using mudane martial arts today there are people out there the police cannot arrest with out resorting to firearms if they resist. Persons who can casually kill or cripple with their hands the same way I causally type this or drink a beer. I'm not sure what the police procedure is for these kind of run ins but I'd suddenly like to find out.

Once they are under arrest the magic gets it a bit trickier of course, the pornomancer is only allowed to testify over closed circuit camera and is not allow in the same room as the jury, the guy whos hands are on fire is going to need special handcuffs, and the ranged killing hands guy with delay damage gets a blindfold and rigged with remote controlled tazers, but past that it not going to be TOO much trouble until you run into the guy custom built to escape anything. Wall running, double jointed, Str of OH NOESE! etc etc etc.

He got shot escaping.
While you can certainly make a Troll adept who can make mincemeat out of any handcuffs you can think of and an Elf that call all but walk thoguh plasticreet walls on escape artist, I'd have the police put him in the flimsiest cuffs they can find in the first place, call a pile of armed back up and HOPE this bugger tries to escape. Cause its going to cost the corp (just remember the police are corperate and like any corp, watches its costs) an arm and a leg for the special containment for him. 6 guys at medium range with pimped out assault rifles should make even the most dedicated tank think twice.

And remember, in the UCAS any crime you commit could be immediatly upgraded to pre-meditated, you did use magic after all. Cop killing isn't just a bad idea and manslaughter, it's murder one and all that assault is pre-meditated assault with a deadly weapon (attempted murder? my legal-fu is weak).
All the martial artists I know activally avoid getting into fights for this "deadly weapon" reason. I can't immagine its gotten any better since the advent of Magical Kung-Fu.

For actually co-operative adept criminals and those that get "non-leathaled"? Ankle mounted high explosives? Nothing tricky, just a guy watching him on camera with a button to his left. Or just into the general population. He's got the same rights as anybody now and maybe he'll thin the numbers out a bit on the lifers before the swarm takes him down. Heck hire him if you can get away with it and have jusidiction. Just don't forget the clause in the employment contract that allows the instalation of a cortex bomb.
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StealthSigma
post Sep 4 2009, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ Sep 4 2009, 02:38 PM) *
6 guys at medium range with pimped out assault rifles should make even the most dedicated tank think twice.


Are we talking the kind of tank with treads, dual layers of armor plating an a 100mm cannon?
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Stahlseele
post Sep 4 2009, 06:52 PM
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No, the kind with 2 Arms and Legs
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StealthSigma
post Sep 4 2009, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 4 2009, 02:52 PM) *
No, the kind with 2 Arms and Legs


Ah, pretty boy elves. Gotcha.
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Screaming Eagle
post Sep 4 2009, 06:55 PM
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I believe I am refering to an adept who has desided that being able to take damage in the double digits is the way to win the game
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Traul
post Sep 4 2009, 06:57 PM
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Or the kind with horns and a scary face?
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StealthSigma
post Sep 4 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Traul @ Sep 4 2009, 02:57 PM) *
Or the kind with horns and a scary face?


Yeah, elves. Scary faces, point ears (horns). Elves.
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DarkKindness
post Sep 4 2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ Sep 4 2009, 01:38 PM) *
*BLAM!!!! BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!!!*
He was resisting arrest.
There are time when I realise I'm not playing the same game as some of the other people here... this looks like one of those times.

What I'd have most police do to "restain" an adept character that is resisting is the same thing they do to anyone they run into brandishing a weapon of unknown calibur (could be a toy, could be sporting cop-killer rounds), aim for centre mass and pull the trigger. Repeat until satisfied with results. In the 6th world "Shoot first and ask questions later" isn't a grim joke, it procedure.

Even using mudane martial arts today there are people out there the police cannot arrest with out resorting to firearms if they resist. Persons who can casually kill or cripple with their hands the same way I causally type this or drink a beer. I'm not sure what the police procedure is for these kind of run ins but I'd suddenly like to find out.

Once they are under arrest the magic gets it a bit trickier of course, the pornomancer is only allowed to testify over closed circuit camera and is not allow in the same room as the jury, the guy whos hands are on fire is going to need special handcuffs, and the ranged killing hands guy with delay damage gets a blindfold and rigged with remote controlled tazers, but past that it not going to be TOO much trouble until you run into the guy custom built to escape anything. Wall running, double jointed, Str of OH NOESE! etc etc etc.

He got shot escaping.
While you can certainly make a Troll adept who can make mincemeat out of any handcuffs you can think of and an Elf that call all but walk thoguh plasticreet walls on escape artist, I'd have the police put him in the flimsiest cuffs they can find in the first place, call a pile of armed back up and HOPE this bugger tries to escape. Cause its going to cost the corp (just remember the police are corperate and like any corp, watches its costs) an arm and a leg for the special containment for him. 6 guys at medium range with pimped out assault rifles should make even the most dedicated tank think twice.

And remember, in the UCAS any crime you commit could be immediatly upgraded to pre-meditated, you did use magic after all. Cop killing isn't just a bad idea and manslaughter, it's murder one and all that assault is pre-meditated assault with a deadly weapon (attempted murder? my legal-fu is weak).
All the martial artists I know activally avoid getting into fights for this "deadly weapon" reason. I can't immagine its gotten any better since the advent of Magical Kung-Fu.

For actually co-operative adept criminals and those that get "non-leathaled"? Ankle mounted high explosives? Nothing tricky, just a guy watching him on camera with a button to his left. Or just into the general population. He's got the same rights as anybody now and maybe he'll thin the numbers out a bit on the lifers before the swarm takes him down. Heck hire him if you can get away with it and have jusidiction. Just don't forget the clause in the employment contract that allows the instalation of a cortex bomb.


Somehow I think that there's a little bit of internet tough guy leaking through here. Cops, when dealing with an unarmed opponent (such as your martial arts expert in the above example (and they're not all that likely to get into confrontations with law enforcement anyway, but that's another story)), will typically attempt to apprehend them hands-on first and, failing that, move up the force continuum to non-lethal options such as tasers, batons, pepper spray, etc... Failing that, the next step is less-lethal solutions - things like rubber rounds from the shotgun and so on. Only after all of these other means of attempted control have been attempted do most police use lethal force in order to deal with an unarmed assailant... needless to say, it doesn't often come to that. Now, that's the real world, but I really can't imagine the 6th world being all that different - police procedure isn't going to change for the .5% of people who are adepts, and I'm sure that most people who have obviously combative cyberware (from cyberarms on up) would probably be treated as armed suspects in the first place, automatically escalating the force continuum.

Of course, all of this goes out the window if they're attempting to apprehend a suspect who is known to have combative adept powers, and probably just as much so the instant that the police find out that the suspect is using combative adept powers - at that point, they're no longer unarmed, just differently armed.

As for restraining them, I'd say that magecuffs and/or a magehood would probably do the trick. Otherwise, just make sure that you have an incredibly high background count cell waiting for them to spend their time in...
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Stahlseele
post Sep 4 2009, 07:11 PM
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I don't know in which reality you live, but i remember news about cops arresting 5 year old kids with chains and balls and all that . .
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DarkKindness
post Sep 4 2009, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 4 2009, 02:11 PM) *
I don't know in which reality you live, but i remember news about cops arresting 5 year old kids with chains and balls and all that . .


I think that you'll find that what you see on the news isn't congruent with 90% of the cases that exist in the world. This is largely because the only thing that's newsworthy is the sensational and the exceptional.
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