I keep seeing specific applications of stun damage that are resisted to Willpower. That's how I got that confused.

Cool... Was just wondering is all...

I can't really add a lot to what's been said, other than to reiterate thnat it's okay to admit you've cocked up and say to the players that there's too much gear/whatever and that things are breaking down and some folks aren't having fun. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the ability to admit a mistake and come clean to the players (if it gets that bad) is one of the criteria for being a good GM.

Talk to the players about your concerns. They may not see anything wrong with the game, and if they want to con tinue as is, then you may need to give serious consideration to stepping down as GM. The game has to be fun for everyone, GM included. I've been where you are with players who's only MO at the table was slapstick; works great for comedy games, but not so much when things get serious. You may have to reluctantly agree to have that player no longer invited to the game. Hopefully the player will be adult enough about it not to cause a stink, and if he does, maybe he's not the sort of person you want to hang arund with anyway. Even if he's a roomie.

If they agree the game is broke, but don't want to retcon everything, then, while it is cliche, have them arrested and all their stuff taken away. (Or detained by a corp, doesn't matter). At that point, they're released, sans gear, and owing several runs worth of service to said former detainer. Give them basic gear if you're feeling generous, or make them purchase stuff all over again, but making the previously offending gear now impossible to obtain. (The characters can be too hot for any fixer to deal in that kind of equipment with them, etc). Once the IC reset is complete, design runs where everyone has at least a chance to shine, but start with some of the more stealthy/less lethal kind and give the players an incentive to add more depth to their characters.

Oh, and one more thing. If you do go for the arrest/TPK/whatever, forget about how powerful the plaeyrs are. You're the GM. In your campaign, you are, quite literally, God with a capital 'G'. Don't worry about the stats of whatever hammer you bring down on them (if they really are that good/powerful), just play out the result. If they push back and complain they were gacked too easily, you inform them that their characters don't know absolutely everything that goes on in the world. Who says the corps/govt don't have kit that easily outclasses the characters by a Sunday mile? Make it seem like they had a chance, sure, but only make it seem that way.

Good luck on Sunday. Remember, we're all in this together and keep your stick on the ice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hindsight is only 20/20.

The best option would be sitting the players down and being honest with them.
1. Tell them that you're not having fun.
2. Tell them the campaign is broken.
3. And that you would like a reboot.

If they are your friends, then they will understand or at least try to.

I encountered this problem last year, in terms of the campaign being 'broken.' or more then I could handle at the time

But one of the players who is going to be taking over GM duties said this to me and it was very profound.

Paraphrased.

"As a GM the game is not mine. Sure I can throw out a lot of things that I want to see, but is that really what the PC's want? Will it take away from their fun."

I haven't read the whole thread, but my opinion is to kill it with fire. Pit them up against something that ignores "moar dakka," then go, "Well, how about a game where you're supposed to have 'moar dakka' and still not have 'enouf dakka?'"

To which I recommend Alpha Omega. The game is very good at being able to pit a 6 against a wide enough variety of things that pose just the right amount of challenge and when the party "levels up" and those things become the mooks, there's another dozen creatures waiting to take the lime light. The game is based on d20, but has so little left of the d20 mechanics that it doesn't matter if you think d20 causes cancer or love the d20 system. AO is something else entirely, and is honestly worth learning. I keep seeing similarities between it and ShadowRun and thinking, "wow, this mechanic works so much better and fits with the surrounding system well" (aka no "hacking subgame" or "grapple subgame"). There are things I prefer the ShadowRun way, mind, but would not incorporate into the AO system as well as what's already there.

The game has a sliding scale of attributes from 1 to 100, and is fairly balanced across the spectrum. Temporarily gaining access to the higher end of the spectrum is generally very difficult (granting a temporary stat increase of +5 is impossible early on, and doesn't provide that much bonus, but having "my stat is random this roll!" is easy, but doesn't necessarily give you a high stat, and you can't do either very often).

Monsters have "ranks" with delineate them in the same way that the CR in D&D tried to do, but isn't a "4 people of level 4 can take a CR 4" kind of thing. Monsters have ranks from 1 to 10, 10 being things that make the Tarrasque look like an appetizer (some of them could probably eat the tarrasque and keep going). Right out of chargen, the party should be able to take Rank 2 monsters with out too much difficulty, and a single Rank 3 should be a challenge (they'll win, but they'll go "don't do that again"), but it does depend on how the group approaches the problem as well as what kinds of things they have access to (an elemenalist mage can own face on things that bullets have a hard time hurting, and both of them will have trouble with spirits (which come in two varieties: alpha and omega; generally alpha is only hurt by omega, and vice versa--other resistances/immunities vary by spirit)).

There are some holes in the rules (hint: make sure someone has the magic to repair items, because without it you can't, despite hints otherwise), but on the whole it's not too bad. It's very much more of a "MOAR DAKKA" type of game than ShadowRun is: you head out into the apocalyptic wastelands and beat the shit out of mutant creatures, and the game expects you to and has something that can come along and punk you (but you run away, lick your wounds, train up in town and go back for more).

Just FYI: starting points characters will feel about four to ten times as powerful as a ShadowRun character, despite nearly identical initial BP allotments, as you get some wicked neat stuff on the cheap (or so it seems). This is normal, the game knows how strong you are and is prepared for you; no more fighting off hoards of NPC guards who appear to have 1 hit point and expend no resources doing so. Also, the milk run adventure that was published (it's called Milk Run, I'm not joking) does not use the up to date monster stats, basically double their hit points and pretend like all of their armor is the "I ignore damage" type (add the two numbers), as doing enough of the "my armor is now broken and useless" damage just doesn't happen to NPCs (armor doesn't break often enough to deal with the hassle of tracking armor damage on NPCs).

I'm certain all of your players will find a way to be full of dakka and not step on each others toes. There are 3 ways to access magic (innate, spiritual, and arcane), 4 sources, and 12 intentions (what you can do with those sources of energy) and a full array of weapons from a simple dagger to an energy chain sword to fully automatic heavy assault tank cannons (ok, not quite that bad ass, and even if it existed, the monetary cost would be huge--ShadowRun gives you "as much cash as you want," Alpha Omega goes "you and everyone else gets $2500 each. Oh, you want more? 30 BP for $1500, you can do that up to 3 times").

A Lot of good advice in this thread. I just want to add that 7 players is not too many, it is a crowd though. My suggestion is to transform your most capable player into an assisant GM. This person can supervise the other players and consolidate all the characters info and actions, leaving you to run the opposition and make sure everyone is participating.

Lots of Dakka is a normal impluse for many new SR players. You are the GM however, and you need to give your players motivation to advance their characters in new dimensions. Have some runs where handguns are the heaviest weapons allowed. Make your non-dakka players absolutley vital to the run. When the gunplay inevitably breaks out, have your assistant GM keep track of all the dakka players while you run the goons, and interact with the super important stuff the non-dakka palyers are doing, i.e. the actual mission objectives.

If you are going to drop a bomb on this campaign, I advise against punishing your good players along with the bad. Let your good players keep their characters, or get a bonus when making new ones. The last thing you want to do is sour your better players, you need them.

Aye, the best advise is to talk with the players, but if they are resitant to changing anything then warn them that you are going to start playing the the game as if it were populated by real people as opposed to retarded lemurs.

Now with that said, I'm fairly sure that you have misread some rule because it is really fragging hard to create a bunch of characters that are actually unstopable and have no reason to be afraid of snipers, ect...

Okay, here's what happened.

After talking to everyone, the entire group agreed that splitting and remaking were both good ideas. So that's what we did. Tonight, we ran with what has been dubbed the Loud Group -- the two problem people, plus the other guy that live sin my suite. We got to do it in our common room, which was nice, and, well, it ran beautifully. So all in all, it was brilliant.

Thanks for the advice, guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wait ... did we just effectively solve a problem for the better on the DSF? And in only 33 posts? Someone look for flying pigs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No, just a one wing'd mutant raptor thing. It's probably just a SURGEling.