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> Weapon Choices for a weapon specialist, a survey of practical knowledge
Neraph
post Oct 27 2009, 05:56 PM
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I do have a Weapons specialist AI that I'll be using in an upcoming campaign myself, and I'll be trying to get one of these to try it out.

Chainsword
Monofilament Chainsaw (1 Reach; 5P; -2 AP) [4, 350]
[1 Slot] R1 Custom Look [2, 100]
[1 Slot] Personalized Grip [2, 100]
[1 Slot] Reduced Weight [6, 350]
[1 Slot] Gecko Grip [6, 100]
[1 Slot] Skinlink [6, 50]
[- Slots] Lanyard [10]
Av: 6
Cost: 1,060
The chainsword gives a +10 bonus on tests to see if the wielder can maintain a hold on the weapon if the gecko grip is active and the lanyard is in use. Because of the custom look (sword) and reduced weight, the -2 penalty on attack rolls and parry tests should be negated.

Incidentally, the chainsword is street legal...

EDIT: Here is also the "poor man's sniper rifle". Recently I've gone towards Sports Rifles over Sniper Rifles, mainly I think because of the greater skill required to use a 5-round rifle to kill people instead of a 20 round SA rifle that you can reload with a Simple Action (smartlinked).

Sports Rifle
Ruger 100 (7P; -1 AP; SA; [1] RC; 5[m]) [4R, 900]
[2 Slots] Chameleon Coating [10R, 1,000]
[3 Slots] Sound Supressor [12F, 600]
[1 Slot] Smartgun System [6R, 900]
Av: 12F
Cost: 3,400

I have a running Notepad of gear options on my PC, if anyone was curious.
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Xahn Borealis
post Oct 27 2009, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 27 2009, 05:56 PM) *
Sports Rifle
Ruger 100 (7P; -1 AP; SA; [1] RC; 5[m]) [4R, 900]
[2 Slots] Chameleon Coating [10R, 1,000]
[3 Slots] Sound Supressor [12F, 600]
[1 Slot] Smartgun System [6R, 900]
Av: 12F
Cost: 3,400



Why are you getting a sound supressor? Silencer takes less slots, IIRC.
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DWC
post Oct 27 2009, 06:23 PM
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A silencer modification (all you need for a semi-automatic rifle) is 2 slots and 400 nuyen with an 8F availability. Also, an internal smartgun system doesn't take any slots if you get it as a weapon accessory but still functions in exactly the same fashion. Something else to look into is a bipod.
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kzt
post Oct 27 2009, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Oct 27 2009, 01:21 AM) *
How has the Anniversary Edition nerfed the MRL? The descriptions are the same.

No, they nerfed rockets. You can't actually hit with them.
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kzt
post Oct 27 2009, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 27 2009, 08:23 AM) *
This seems like the right place to bring it up, among the debate on weapons in Shadowrun. I'm curious whether I'm the only player who has come to hate that the Ares Alpha is the best assault rifle in the world, and nothing else even comes close. As a fan of the setting, it offends me that there is a clear cut "right answer" about the assault rifle to use.

It's silly, as there are lots of expert shooters, soldiers, etc and there isn't any "best" AR, or best service pistol, etc. It's all trade-offs. But SR isn't that granular. At the scale of SR they all pistols are just like every other pistol.

(This is particularly true when the guys writing the rules haven't the foggiest clue about guns. Like in SR....)

MY preference is that they have ONE "assault rifle" and one ""heavy pistol" with some accessories to customize instead of 12 guns, of which one is obviously the best.

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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 27 2009, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 27 2009, 09:37 PM) *
No, they nerfed rockets. You can't actually hit with them.
I still don't see where the difference in the rules for rockets is between SR4 and SR4A. Please elaborate.

And I totally agree with your last post.
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Udoshi
post Oct 27 2009, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Oct 27 2009, 03:08 PM) *
I still don't see where the difference in the rules for rockets is between SR4 and SR4A. Please elaborate.


As far as i've heard, it has to do with a re-writing of the scatter mechanics, and aiming at a person vs aiming at a point(maybe). I'm a bit fuzzy on the exact differences. Sadly, i don't have a non-anniversary edition, but i'd be happy to look up how it works in 4A if someone else wants to find the 4th rules to compare.
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DWC
post Oct 27 2009, 09:47 PM
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Rockets and missiles had their scatter distance doubled from 2d6 meters to a base of 4d6, without an increase in the amount that net hits or sensor rating reduces it.
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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 27 2009, 09:50 PM
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ACK. Hopefully this will be corrected in the next errata.
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Neraph
post Oct 27 2009, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 27 2009, 01:23 PM) *
A silencer modification (all you need for a semi-automatic rifle) is 2 slots and 400 nuyen with an 8F availability. Also, an internal smartgun system doesn't take any slots if you get it as a weapon accessory but still functions in exactly the same fashion. Something else to look into is a bipod.

You only need a bipod if you fire more than two shots a turn.

EDIT: The internal smartgun is because a normal smartgun system can be taken off or targetted with a Called Shot: an internal you never have to worry about.
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Neraph
post Oct 27 2009, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE (Xahn Borealis @ Oct 27 2009, 01:12 PM) *
Why are you getting a sound supressor? Silencer takes less slots, IIRC.

I saw the branch and thought I had to take one of the lower parts - that Sound Suppressor, Thermal, and Revolver were the only available sub-groups of Silencer. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

EDIT: New sports rifle:
Sports Rifle
Ruger 100 (7P; -1 AP; SA; [1] RC; 5[m]) [4R, 900]
[2 Slots] Chameleon Coating [10R, 1,000]
[2 Slots] Silencer [8F, 400]
[1 Slot] Smartgun System [6R, 900]
[1 Slot] Barrel Extention [8R, 900]
Av: 10F
Cost: 4,100
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Thanee
post Oct 27 2009, 10:16 PM
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Unless they changed that, Sound Suppressor is a Silencer that also works for automatic weapons. Silencer only works for SS/SA.

Bye
Thanee
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crizh
post Oct 27 2009, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 27 2009, 10:47 PM) *
Rockets and missiles had their scatter distance doubled from 2d6 meters to a base of 4d6, without an increase in the amount that net hits or sensor rating reduces it.


However Rocket Launchers are still capable of accepting the Airburst Link modification.

With Sensor 6 Missiles (expensive, I know) this becomes (2D6-6) - net hits.

On average you only need 1 net hit to strike true....

I prefer Heimdalls but you can hit with a missile.
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Corgak
post Oct 27 2009, 10:56 PM
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So the suppressor that is an internal mod does not take up the barrel slot? Allowing me to also use a gas-vent system? If that is the case, then awesome. Otherwise I have to choose between lower recoil and stealth, which would probably translate into stealth over recoil in most cases. Also, I need to re-read the arm slide description, but does it let me mount a heavy pistol into it?

I put the FA on the Ruger Thunderbolt as it was a cheap upgrade on a gun with already great recoil comp and it gave good conceilability, I am not totally sold on it though. The ARES Alpha is a keeper, I pretty much knew that already, but this just confirmed it. I chose the bow as a silent kill solution that offered versatility, but I am not sold on it either (this one I was actually having second thoughts on to be honest). The shotty...., well if you are a weapons specialist and you don't have a shotgun, you need a new job (incidently I was considering giving the SPAS-22 a FA upgrade, opinions on that?).
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DWC
post Oct 27 2009, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 27 2009, 06:11 PM) *
You only need a bipod if you fire more than two shots a turn.

EDIT: The internal smartgun is because a normal smartgun system can be taken off or targetted with a Called Shot: an internal you never have to worry about.


I'm not suggesting an external smartgun system. I'm pointing out that an internal smartgun system is available as an accessory for exactly the same cost as the modification, with the same availability as the modification, and without taking up a modification slot. Check it out. It's right there in SR4A.

As for the bipod, there's no rules mechanic behind it, but for what you'd want a silenced sporting rifle for, being able to keep the front end of the weapon completely steady is pretty helpful.
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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 27 2009, 11:13 PM
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QUOTE (Corgak @ Oct 27 2009, 11:56 PM) *
So the suppressor that is an internal mod does not take up the barrel slot? Allowing me to also use a gas-vent system? If that is the case, then awesome. Otherwise I have to choose between lower recoil and stealth, which would probably translate into stealth over recoil in most cases.
They still don't work simultaneously but you could still add a silencer to a weapon with a gas vent. To silence the shot the vents must be closed.
QUOTE (Corgak @ Oct 27 2009, 11:56 PM) *
Also, I need to re-read the arm slide description, but does it let me mount a heavy pistol into it?
It can be used with any pistol sized weapon. So by RAW even a MGL-6 could be hidden there.

QUOTE (Corgak @ Oct 27 2009, 11:56 PM) *
(incidently I was considering giving the SPAS-22 a FA upgrade, opinions on that?).
Too small internal magazine. Wait till after CharGen and buy the AA-16. It's the Ares Alpha of assault shotguns.

QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 28 2009, 12:00 AM) *
I'm not suggesting an external smartgun system. I'm pointing out that an internal smartgun system is available as an accessory for exactly the same cost as the modification, with the same availability as the modification, and without taking up a modification slot. Check it out. It's right there in SR4A.
The Modification rules supersede the rules in the BBB (SR4A or otherwise). So an internal Smartlink costs mod slots if you use the other modification rules.
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DWC
post Oct 27 2009, 11:24 PM
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Arsenal (2nd printing) page 148 disagrees with you.

Under the heading "Modifications vs. Accessories"
"Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter."

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Neraph
post Oct 28 2009, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 27 2009, 05:00 PM) *
I'm not suggesting an external smartgun system. I'm pointing out that an internal smartgun system is available as an accessory for exactly the same cost as the modification, with the same availability as the modification, and without taking up a modification slot. Check it out. It's right there in SR4A.

I don't have SR4A.
QUOTE (DWC @ Oct 27 2009, 05:00 PM) *
As for the bipod, there's no rules mechanic behind it, but for what you'd want a silenced sporting rifle for, being able to keep the front end of the weapon completely steady is pretty helpful.

I will not spend cash on an RP-only thing if I can help it. The rules do not cover a rifle moving due to character movement, unless it is used while running or while in a vehicle. Besides, all that is required to negate any of that is a Lock On option, which I assume the person in question uses and has Image Magnification on their contact lenses.
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Marwynn
post Oct 28 2009, 12:17 AM
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The difference between the SR4A Internal Smartlink and the Arsenal Internal Smartlink is that the weapon with the SR4A version is explained as a "Smartgun" model. It wasn't modified per se, just an upgraded model that you bought.

The Arsenal mod is an after-purchase thing, hence costing a slot.
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Udoshi
post Oct 28 2009, 01:26 AM
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There's also the external smartlink, which is a lot cheaper than modding your gun up, but it does take Accessory space.
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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 28 2009, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (Marwynn @ Oct 28 2009, 01:17 AM) *
The difference between the SR4A Internal Smartlink and the Arsenal Internal Smartlink is that the weapon with the SR4A version is explained as a "Smartgun" model. It wasn't modified per se, just an upgraded model that you bought.

The Arsenal mod is an after-purchase thing, hence costing a slot.
Not in my book(s).
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 322 or SR4 p. 312')
Retrofitting a firearm with an internal Smartgun system doubles the weapon’s price.

QUOTE ('Arsenal p. 153')
This modification is the internal version of the smartgun system (pp. 311–312, SR4).
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Corgak
post Oct 28 2009, 07:00 AM
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So, I re-equipped myself, significantly. Currently this is my load out:

Melee:
I still have the ceramic knife, I have been eyeing the short cougar fine blade.
2x Tomahawks
Stun Baton
Close Combat skill group (previously I had unarmed and blades) so if i have to my ranged weapons are also melee weapons.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Thrown:
Those same two tomahawks
some frags

Ranged:
Yamaha Sakura Fubuki with no folding stock, internal Sound Supressor, Hidden Arm Slide, modified grip, and a skin linked smartgun system (future plans include possibly making it built of ceramic parts and using Hi-C rounds) with the 1 barrel SnS and the other 3 Ex-Ex (the other players said "Wait, thats your hold out? Oh Jesus.").
Ruger Superwarhawk with no mods yet and just regular rounds.
Ingram P93 Praetor (with Electronic Firing and Low-Light flashlight) with Gas-Vent 3, Integrated Sound Suppressor, Thermographic flashlight, and skinlinked smartlink using regular and sub sonic rounds
Defiance T-250 no mods and good 'ol slugs (I plan on ditching this with the AA16 asap, but I would still like to start out with a shotty, I might mod it with a drum and give it SA and loan it to the mage....).
ARES Alpha with shock pad and skinlinked smartlink using regular ammo and an assortment of grenades for the launcher (and extensive plans to mod the crap out of this gun).
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kzt
post Oct 28 2009, 08:01 AM
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You should never get too attached to a given weapon or use/carry it all the time. You should destroy them or throw them away or sell them off to random strangers on a regular basis. So I'd recommend against modifying a stock weapon as it set you up for failure in at least 4 ways.

a) You need to be willing to convert it into razor blades any time you use it. It's hard for ballistics to run tests on the barrel you cut lengthwise with a plasma cutter and dropped into 8 different dumpsters.
b) You need to be willing to drop it and walk out the back door as the cops flood into the the front door.
c) A weapon you are attached to is a great sympathetic link.
d) A weapon you always carry is a good sympathetic link.
e) Bullets fired from a gun can probably be used to create a ritual link to the gun. If the gun is in your holster when this happens it is likely to turn out quite poorly for you.
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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 28 2009, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 28 2009, 09:01 AM) *
a) You need to be willing to convert it into razor blades any time you use it. It's hard for ballistics to run tests on the barrel you cut lengthwise with a plasma cutter and dropped into 8 different dumpsters.
Using frangible rounds, flechettes or ExEx do also help since they don't keep a ballistic profile. Not so sure about SnS. With APDS you are also safe as long as the sabot is not recovered and the internal projectile is not matched to the sabot and barrel of the gun.
Using a 10mm drill on a 9mm barrel should also do the trick. Using caseless ammunition or exchanging the hammer/firing pin after it has been toroughly sanded will also help.

QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 28 2009, 09:01 AM) *
b) You need to be willing to drop it and walk out the back door as the cops flood into the the front door.
Mostly whether they catch you with or without a gun your in deep trouble.

QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 28 2009, 09:01 AM) *
c) A weapon you are attached to is a great sympathetic link.
d) A weapon you always carry is a good sympathetic link.
It is a GM's decision if a weapon whose barrel and hammer are regularly changed retains enough of its integrity to form a link.

QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 28 2009, 09:01 AM) *
e) Bullets fired from a gun can probably be used to create a ritual link to the gun. If the gun is in your holster when this happens it is likely to turn out quite poorly for you.
It does not work that way.
QUOTE ('Street Magic p. 29')
If the target is an inanimate object, the material link forms an integral, essential part of its structure. For example, you can target a building using a brick from one of its walls. However, you can’t use a picture that used to hang inside the building, as the picture is not an integral part of the building.
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Saint Sithney
post Oct 28 2009, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Oct 27 2009, 03:13 PM) *
They still don't work simultaneously but you could still add a silencer to a weapon with a gas vent. To silence the shot the vents must be closed.


The Ingram Smartgun X always confused me. Gasvent 2 and a Supressor on a stock gun?
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