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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 1 2009, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 1 2009, 11:11 PM) *
Run Tests count per IP, eh?

I thought your total movement got split up by the IP and run tests only added to the total.
Your total distance is split by the IPs to find out how far you have gone after each IP, but I have found no rule limiting you to one or two simple actions to increase the total distance. While I agree that it would make more sense to limit the sprint test to one per round that is not RAW.

QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 1 2009, 11:11 PM) *
Makes more sense the way you explain it, but that puts pretty much every shadow runner in a category that would trump all the world's greatest sprinters easily
True, but who says that athletes in the 2070s don't have all sorts of augmentations. I think I remember that one of the SR3 source books stated that 'ware was accepted in sports but not magic.
Let's see, a mundane exceptional athlete (STR 7, Running(Sprint) 7(+2)) gets on average 25m + 20m (2m*2*5 hits) in 3s. Wow that's 100m in 6.7s, even with only one test the sprint takes only 8.6s. I don't want to calculate the speed on an especially good day, when he is using edge.

QUOTE (Thanee @ Nov 1 2009, 11:15 PM) *
Strength lets you do awesome things, like lifting people off the ground and throw them around.

Lol Exotic Ranged Weapon(dwarf)
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Saint Sithney
post Nov 1 2009, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 1 2009, 02:37 PM) *
While I agree that it would make more sense to limit the sprint test to one per round that is not RAW.


No, it makes good sense that someone who is extremely quick as far as reactions would be quick on their feet as well. A move-by-wire runner would be able to move his legs like no one's business.
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Cheshyr
post Nov 1 2009, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 1 2009, 05:37 PM) *
Lol Exotic Ranged Weapon(dwarf)


I tried that with an Orc. After calculating range, I decided to use the Orc as a baseball bat instead. In the end, I still just dropped the orc and strangled the dude.
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Tyro
post Nov 2 2009, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE (Cheshyr @ Nov 1 2009, 04:37 PM) *
I tried that with an Orc. After calculating range, I decided to use the Orc as a baseball bat instead. In the end, I still just dropped the orc and strangled the dude.

Play a troll. Dwarf tossing is practically a racial sport for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Traul
post Nov 2 2009, 01:24 AM
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In my group we modified climbing gear to turn it into carrying gear. My troll uses it to carry our rigger when she jumps into a drone. Last time I got a bit rough when throwing her in the car and she took 1 point of damage, though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)
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Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 02:10 AM
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I'm personally not a fan of encumbrance rules, feeling that they pretty much appeal to the math nerds game accountants I don't want at my table. However, I don't think SR4 approach was the solid gold solution. I'm not the guy any system is looking to sell on this front at any rate, because I'm comfortable making rulings on the fly. Having spent my time as a Marine Infantry man humping my gear through my share of the boonies, and a career in law enforcement I know what most of this stuff is to lug around, so if I think you're (A player) getting out of control I'll pull you over.
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toturi
post Nov 2 2009, 02:19 AM
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The point is unless the GM deems fit to pull out the Strength "challenges" for each of the first few games, you can generally get enough karma to boost that Str to at least Rating 2 by then and frankly, there aren't that many such challenges that the GM can pull without making it look like he is deliberately giving you a hard time. 20 karma by the 4th game should be quite common (usually more in fact) and that is enough to boost Str and another attribute at Rating 1 to Rating 2.
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Trench
post Nov 2 2009, 04:42 AM
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They should have based Maximum Armor on Strength. Doesnt make sense for someone fresh out of a coma to be running around in riot gear.
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Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 01:35 PM
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Well is endurance, which what I see wearing body armor for any length of time being a challenge of-and since I've worn various levels of body armor for as long as days a ta time, including standard "Bullet Proof" vests, to flak jackets-at any rate is endurance linked to Strength or Body? I can easily see arguments for both.
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Draco18s
post Nov 2 2009, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 1 2009, 06:37 PM) *
Let's see, a mundane exceptional athlete (STR 7, Running(Sprint) 7(+2)) gets on average 25m + 20m (2m*2*5 hits) in 3s. Wow that's 100m in 6.7s, even with only one test the sprint takes only 8.6s. I don't want to calculate the speed on an especially good day, when he is using edge.


Assume 7 edge, for sheer silliness. Edge added to roll (less silly).

25+ n

n = (2m*2*hits)

dice = 16+7 = 23

hits = 23/3 + (23/6)/3 + ((23/6)/6)/3= 7.667 + 1.277 + 0.21296

hits = 9.157

substituting back up...

distance = 25 + 36 = 61 meters / 3 seconds.

Spending edge to reroll failures (more silly) gives us an amazing 12.778 hits for a whopping 76m / 3 seconds (counting fractional hits). Which makes for a 4 second 100 meter dash, twice as fast as the current record holder.

Without edge, getting max hits, you get 16 => 89m / 3 seconds. Max (assuming no rerolls) with edge gives 23 hits => 117m / 3 sec, with average rerolls (4) making hits you get up to 133m / 3 sec (a 2.25 second 100m dash).
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Stahlseele
post Nov 2 2009, 03:51 PM
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Why luck should help with running is beyong me.
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 2 2009, 03:53 PM
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Edge isn't only luck and you can ask this question with most endeavors.
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Muspellsheimr
post Nov 2 2009, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 1 2009, 09:42 PM) *
They should have based Maximum Armor on Strength. Doesnt make sense for someone fresh out of a coma to be running around in riot gear.

QUOTE (Paul @ Nov 2 2009, 06:35 AM) *
Well is endurance, which what I see wearing body armor for any length of time being a challenge of-and since I've worn various levels of body armor for as long as days a ta time, including standard "Bullet Proof" vests, to flak jackets-at any rate is endurance linked to Strength or Body? I can easily see arguments for both.

Best way of doing it (which I did not use in my game, unfortunately) is determining armor encumbrance by:
Ballistic + Impact vs. (Strength + Body) x 2
For every 2 points over (or partial point thereof), you incur a -1 dice pool modifier to all physical actions, including defense tests.

This also has the advantage of increasing the value of Strength.
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Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 2 2009, 10:51 AM) *
Why luck should help with running is beyond me.


You've never had a "good day" at the gym? All the factors are basically the same, but some reason you're just on. Obviously your mileage will vary, right?
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Stahlseele
post Nov 2 2009, 07:18 PM
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Considering certain health problems, no, i never had a good day at the gym. But yeah, i guess someone could just have a good day somehow.
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Trench
post Nov 2 2009, 08:26 PM
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Strength + Body * 2?? That makes 42 points on a cybertroll. Strength + Body straight makes perfect sense.
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Tyro
post Nov 2 2009, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 2 2009, 01:26 PM) *
Strength + Body * 2?? That makes 42 points on a cybertroll. Strength + Body straight makes perfect sense.

Seconded. This is one of the best fixes for armor encumbrance.
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Faradon
post Nov 2 2009, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Tyro @ Nov 2 2009, 03:31 PM) *
Seconded. This is one of the best fixes for armor encumbrance.


Agreed here as well...

One other alternative I could see would be changing the cost to raise a stat based on the stat itself. AGI costs Rating X6, Str Rating X4, Bod Rating X5, etc. (just random stats/numbers)

Minimum Str requirements for other weapons might be a good idea as well. Lugging around a HMG or even a LMG and trying to "fire from the hip" might be possible for a str 10 troll, but might be a bit harder for a Str 2 Human Street Sam.
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 2 2009, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 2 2009, 09:26 PM) *
Strength + Body * 2?? That makes 42 points on a cybertroll. Strength + Body straight makes perfect sense.
No, actually the *2 makes sense because you do not compare that value to each of the armor values but to the sum of ballistic and impact armor. Otherwise Joe Average couldn't even wear an Urban Explorer Jumpsuit without taking a -3 penalty.
QUOTE (Faradon @ Nov 2 2009, 10:08 PM) *
Minimum Str requirements for other weapons might be a good idea as well. Lugging around a HMG or even a LMG and trying to "fire from the hip" might be possible for a str 10 troll, but might be a bit harder for a Str 2 Human Street Sam.
Just swallow your pride and get a gyro stabilization unit, even if your a STR 15 troll. That piece of gear is just too damn good.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Nov 3 2009, 03:04 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 2 2009, 03:29 PM) *
Just swallow your pride and get a gyro stabilization unit, even if your a STR 15 troll. That piece of gear is just too damn good.



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AngelisStorm
post Nov 3 2009, 03:38 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 2 2009, 03:18 PM) *
Considering certain health problems, no, i never had a good day at the gym. But yeah, i guess someone could just have a good day somehow.


"The Zone?" Pretty much anyone, barring serious medical issues, can have a good day at the gym, or any other physical sport.

Heck, my little bro has immune system problems, and every couple of months he gets in the zone on archery, and just pegs people left and right (sometimes in the face* while they charge).

*medieval combat group
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Muspellsheimr
post Nov 3 2009, 05:26 AM
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QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 2 2009, 01:26 PM) *
Strength + Body * 2?? That makes 42 points on a cybertroll. Strength + Body straight makes perfect sense.

No. As Dakka mentioned, it works as follows:

Rules as Written Body * 2 vs. Ballistic or Impact (whichever is higher).
Suggested Rule (Body + Strength) * 2 vs. Ballistic and Impact.

It changes from one attribute times two vs. one attribute, to two attributes times two vs. two attributes.

Yes, generally speaking, the maximum armor allotment for Orks & Trolls will increase slightly - this is the point. Strength is now a valuable attribute, & thus justifies paying for the racial modifiers (note I also adjust racial costs, as appropriate for their actual positive & negative abilities). Combined with my other ruling of Strength-based Recoil Compensation being increased from 1 at 6, +1 per 3 thereafter to 1 at 4, +1 per 2 thereafter, Strength is no longer a "dump stat".
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Stahlseele
post Nov 3 2009, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Nov 3 2009, 04:38 AM) *
"The Zone?" Pretty much anyone, barring serious medical issues, can have a good day at the gym, or any other physical sport.

Heck, my little bro has immune system problems, and every couple of months he gets in the zone on archery, and just pegs people left and right (sometimes in the face* while they charge).

*medieval combat group

troubles with my diaphragm/midriff/phrenic.
I can't do much of anything that has to do with repeating stuttering movement.
swimming and riding a bike are, as of now, the two only things i can do where i won't get stitches so bad that ia lmost black out from being unable to breathe . .
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 3 2009, 08:54 AM
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Ouch, I feel sorry for you. But even with biking and swimming aren't there days where the same exercise feels easier and you go faster than on other days for no apparent reason? That you could call "being in the zone" as well.
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AngelisStorm
post Nov 3 2009, 09:14 AM
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Sorry to hear that Stahlseele. I have a friend who is occasionally on swimteam, but just as often is falling apart at the seams. (Not real sure why, but horrible arthritis I think is involved.) My post was definitely not meant as a "walk it off!" statement, I just wanted to 2nd that Edge/Luck/Being in the Zone does make sense. (As much as anything in this game does, at least.)
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