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Uli
post Dec 25 2009, 05:45 PM
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I know, there are not a lot of rules concerning BTLs. But my very dear players would love to copy, modify, and/or produce their own trade goods. For example throw some Kamikaze, put on their simrig, and walk into close combat with a wendigo. For example.

My interest are the mechanical aspects: Which hardware do you need to produce a BTL from a sim recording or modify a BTL? Which software? Which skills? How would you decide about the future quality and price?

I hope you come up with some ideas. I already use the BTLs from Zormal. And remember, the future of the Chicago BTL addicts depends on you.
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hahnsoo
post Dec 25 2009, 06:12 PM
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Isn't this beyond the scope of the Shadowrun game? If your Shadowrunners didn't want to shadowrun anymore and instead run a full-time business (which is what this would amount to), the game would be called "BTL Dealer" instead of "Shadowrun". You'd run afoul of the local law (not so much a problem in Chicago currently), local gangs (big problem), local organized crime (who definitely would want to root out someone taking a cut of their business). Then there's the hit that the runners will take to their reputation ("They've gone soft ever since they've wasted their time dealing BTLs"). Also, BTL dealing (or any other drug dealing) doesn't strike me as a "If you build it, they will come" sort of business. This strikes me as an idea that hasn't really been thought through by everyone involved.

The difference between a sim and BTL is that a BTL has been modified specifically to cause addiction. There are simsense flicks that have higher peak controllers and are illegal, but these are designed for entertainment purposes and are sold as such. I'd imagine you can take any simchip and make it into a BTL by adding the Addictive program option from Unwired, p117. You could also add the Psychotropic option to cause euphoria and a Mild Addiction. Quality of the BTL is a subjective thing, but most BTL addicts won't care, as they are just trying to find a chip that directly affects the pleasure centers of their brain.
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Eugene
post Dec 25 2009, 09:36 PM
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I decided that you needed particular algorithms and some specially made hardware to create them. Not because I looked up anything canon, but I wanted an adventure where a member of a criminal syndicate was "defecting" and offering such in return for protection and a place in a different syndicate.
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Ancient History
post Dec 25 2009, 10:00 PM
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We've covered it before. You need a simdeck for editing, simrigs for your actors, and hardware modifications so that you can exceed the normal limiters...'course, that was all back in Shadowbeat, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2072 you could do it with a commlink and a bit of highly illegal software.
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kzt
post Dec 26 2009, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Dec 25 2009, 11:12 AM) *
You'd run afoul of the local law (not so much a problem in Chicago currently), local gangs (big problem), local organized crime (who definitely would want to root out someone taking a cut of their business).

Gangs and crime bosses won't care as long as they get paid and you don't do something that results in huge heat. Street gangs don't make BTLs, but they can be annoying. The capo who thinks he deserves a cut of every porn/BTL made could be a serious issue, but what he wants is money, not bloodshed. If you make prior arrangements to pay the street tax or promptly pay up when his guy drops by he'll keep the cops and other lowlifes away from you.
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Sengir
post Dec 26 2009, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Dec 25 2009, 11:00 PM) *
We've covered it before. You need a simdeck for editing, simrigs for your actors, and hardware modifications so that you can exceed the normal limiters...'course, that was all back in Shadowbeat, I wouldn't be surprised if in 2072 you could do it with a commlink and a bit of highly illegal software.

That's more or less what it says in Unwired about the creation of sim flicks, but the equipment sounds a bit expensive.

Simple BTLs which just stimulate the pleasure centers in the brain should be more within the range of runners...and they don't document any criminal activity on your part.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Dec 26 2009, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Dec 26 2009, 12:01 PM) *
That's more or less what it says in Unwired about the creation of sim flicks, but the equipment sounds a bit expensive.

Simple BTLs which just stimulate the pleasure centers in the brain should be more within the range of runners...and they don't document any criminal activity on your part.



Well... for a more in-depth discussion of what it takes to create such things... See Shadowbeat, it has a great deal of information, even if it is from a previous edition (1st if I remember Correctly)

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Sengir
post Dec 26 2009, 08:34 PM
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So for those of us who don't have it, is it much different from the info in Unwired?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Dec 26 2009, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Dec 26 2009, 01:34 PM) *
So for those of us who don't have it, is it much different from the info in Unwired?


It goes more in depth with the required equipment, most of which can be subsumed into either a SIM Studio Shop or Facility in 4th... It is a good read, but ultimately, not a lot different...

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Ascalaphus
post Dec 26 2009, 11:43 PM
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I'd run it as follows:

1) You need raw material: someone with a simrig who records interesting experiences.
2) Editing: would require a test, to determine how interesting your record becomes. I'd make it a single roll, with successes determining quality. I'd say that Inuition+Software (4) might be a good one; Intuition because its about "artistic merit".
3) Making it "Hot": BTLs are addictive because they give superlative sensory stimulation. This is about artificially amping the intensity of the stimuli it gives off. This probably requires a Logic+Software or Hacking (2) test. [EDITED]
4) Copy Protection: you probably want to add in this program option, as well as a Limited Uses option to make sure people keep buying.
5) Further mindfuck: you can add the Addictive program option; but this is only really required to hook people new to BTLs. For kicks, you can also add the Psychotropic option.

I'd say that you probably need a Kit/Shop/Facility to make these checks, along with the usual dice bonuses they give.
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hahnsoo
post Dec 26 2009, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Dec 26 2009, 06:43 PM) *
I'd run it as follows:

1) You need raw material: someone with a simrig who records interesting experiences.
2) Editing: would require a test, to determine how interesting your record becomes. I'd make it a single roll, with successes determining quality. I'd say that Inuition+Software (4) might be a good one; Intuition because its about "artistic merit".
3) Making it "Hot": BTLs are addictive because they give superlative sensory stimulation. This is about artificially amping the intensity of the stimuli it gives off. This probably requires a Logic+Intuition (2) test.
4) Copy Protection: you probably want to add in this program option, as well as a Limited Uses option to make sure people keep buying.
5) Further mindfuck: you can add the Addictive program option; but this is only really required to hook people new to BTLs. For kicks, you can also add the Psychotropic option.

I'd say that you probably need a Kit/Shop/Facility to make these checks, along with the usual dice bonuses they give.
By RAW, all software tests are Software Rating + Skill checks. So the Edit test would be Edit Rating + Software Skill. Intuition has very little to do with artistic merit, besides... you are more likely to justify Charisma than Intuition. In any case, both are moot according to RAW. You can probably add a Knowledge skill as a complementary teamwork test, if you so desire, to represent artistic merit. BTLs aren't about artistic merit, though... they are about getting as fuckin' high as you can possibly get. It's like trying to watch porn for artistic merit; you'd be barking up the wrong tree. People who get BTLs aren't going to give a damn about the story, the actors, etc. They want to get HIGH.

As for the "Making it Hot", again, Logic + Intuition is a poor test for this, especially when there are relevant skills and programs to do this. It's far more likely to be a programming test with Edit + Software (most Edit + Software tests in RAW are Extended tests, 10 Threshold, 1 hour interval). Or a Logic + Hardware/Software test to remove the safety peak controllers.
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Ascalaphus
post Dec 27 2009, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Dec 27 2009, 12:56 AM) *
By RAW, all software tests are Software Rating + Skill checks.


Actually, coding software is a Logic + Software test. (SR4 p. 125, 240)

QUOTE
Intuition has very little to do with artistic merit, besides... you are more likely to justify Charisma than Intuition.


Intuition is about knowing what people want, the "soft" side of intellect. Perfect for creative efforts, even if they're sordid. Since you're programming/editing/finetuning, not actually interacting with people, Charisma makes no sense.

QUOTE
In any case, both are moot according to RAW.


It's only RAW if it's in the book.

QUOTE
You can probably add a Knowledge skill as a complementary teamwork test, if you so desire, to represent artistic merit. BTLs aren't about artistic merit, though... they are about getting as fuckin' high as you can possibly get. It's like trying to watch porn for artistic merit; you'd be barking up the wrong tree. People who get BTLs aren't going to give a damn about the story, the actors, etc. They want to get HIGH.


I called it "artistic merit" for a reason; it takes skill to make good porn. But you might be right that a Knowledge for the content's quality makes more sense than Software.


QUOTE
As for the "Making it Hot", again, Logic + Intuition is a poor test for this, especially when there are relevant skills and programs to do this. It's far more likely to be a programming test with Edit + Software (most Edit + Software tests in RAW are Extended tests, 10 Threshold, 1 hour interval). Or a Logic + Hardware/Software test to remove the safety peak controllers.


This was an error.


Okay, rephrased to keep it simple;

1) Content: Street Knowledge: BTL Production & Intuition [2]; successes above the threshold indicate quality/hotness
2) Programming: Logic & Software, with a base threshold and optional Copy Protection, Timer, Addictive, Biofeedback and Psychotropic options. Unwired doesn't give a base threshold, but let's assume the same as AR Environment (12, 1 month). This is an extended test. See Unwired p. 119 for context on programming thresholds and test intervals, and the additional cost of Options.

Note that test 2) can be aided with Kits/Shops/Facilities and Teamwork, and you probably want to do so, because otherwise it takes way too long.
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hahnsoo
post Dec 27 2009, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Dec 26 2009, 07:42 PM) *
Actually, coding software is a Logic + Software test. (SR4 p. 125, 240)



Intuition is about knowing what people want, the "soft" side of intellect. Perfect for creative efforts, even if they're sordid. Since you're programming/editing/finetuning, not actually interacting with people, Charisma makes no sense.



It's only RAW if it's in the book.
Ironically, nowhere in RAW does it state that Intuition is perfect for creative efforts, or that Intuition is knowing what people want. RAW specifically states that Charisma is a "willingness to find out what people want and give it to them". It's probably a more appropriate for a performer than an editor, of course.

Still, Intuition is a combination of working from instinct (which is part of Artisan, and therefore could be used for creative efforts... note that Logic is part of Mechanics and other building skills, and thus could be used to make quality "art" as well. ) and observation (Navigation, Shadowing, Perception). As a simsense editor, it may be appropriate (Intuition + Artisan as a creative effort), but as a BTL editor who is simply editing a BTL, you can easily make this a Logic + Software test or Edit + Software test (to simulate "I just want to make my customers high as a kite, for money").

Also, Editing would more likely be a Software test than a programming test. You aren't actually writing any code. You are using editing software to patch together simsense feeds into a product. I suppose that in theory you could have a programmer/editor in the real world, but the two jobs tend to be divorced in our time in terms of movie production. There's no mention of requiring "hax programming skills" to become a simsense editor.
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