Greetings all. Long-time reader, first time poster.

I am prepping for a SR4 game in the new year, and I would like a once-over of my character. I played SR4 online once before, like a year ago, but the game didn't last for more than a couple of sessions. So my knowledge of the game is still quite weak.

I had a few character ideas, but decided to try and bring back my old character (a gunslinger adept). But I went on a bit of a movie binge, and got inspired to emulate a certain amnesiac killing machine played by Good Will Hunting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) . So my character morphed into what I think is a "weapon adept": an adept who can go melee, if only to last long enough to grab a gun (one thing I do remember from my previous experience: SR melee isn't the best position to be in).

So let me know if I bit off more than I could chew.

So far, the GM is allowing all the books, but he may change his mind and just do the Core Book (Anniversary Edition) and Seattle, bring the others in later. Also, I was going to go with Total Amnesia and have my character discover his abilities while playing, but I may not be able to get the GM to let me (seeing as how the book says the player shouldn't know this stuff either).



From the SR4 Excel Character Creator.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

You say an an adept that can go melee but I don't see any melee skills

If you have Arsenal Quickdraw is pretty pointless with the right martial arts maneuvers.

Guts can be useful but generally unless you picked it for character reasons I haven't seen it come in handy much, other people may have a different opinion though.

Exactly how many points were you given? The skills seem a bit low.

Wow, is that really the full skill list? You're lacking skills to use most of your weapons, and have skills that aren't really that helpful to your overall concept. You lack any melee skills (Which you claimed you had), as well as the skill to use your Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Carbine, and your pistols.

You also lack anything to pick locks with despite having the skill. An autopicker is a good idea (Adds rating as a bonus if you actually have the skill). I don't see a lifestyle, but I imagine you have one to put your shop in (Can't carry it around on your back after all).

As for your power selection: I'm fairly sure there are some martial arts that can replicate the quick-draw (And ambidexterity for that matter) for a lower cost that you might want to look into. Multi-tasking is unfortunately of fairly limited use. You only get the extra free actions in non-combat situations, but in non-combat situations, free actions don't matter much because you tend to have as many actions as you want. Oh, and you need killing hands to get critical strike if I recall correctly (though I could be wrong on that point)

You also seem to be carrying around about 200 lbs of weaponry. I suppose some of that will be in your van/house, but just something to keep in mind.

I'd suggest dropping some weapons and focusing on one or two with perhaps a third as backup. I'd also suggest dropping gunnery and heavy weapons. Even pilot groundcraft as the autopilot can usually take care of things for you just fine. Honestly I'd suggest dropping most of your skills if you can't get BP from somewhere, as you desprately need the following skills: Unarmed/Clubs (Depending on which you want to use), Pistols and Longarms/Automatics (Once again, picking one is generally better than lugging around 10 weapons, though skill groups could be your friend here), and gymnastics (That and a good melee skill eliminate the need for the dodge skill). Without these your concept really isn't going to work out as you have it set up. After you have those (Likely at at least a 3-4 skill), then you can start focusing on picking up things like first aid.

Sorry if this seems real negative, but your skill selection just doesn't seem to match what you're trying to make at all. Oh, and finally, an extra point of Agi will go a long way.

Hmmm, for some weird reason, the sheet didn't copy over my skill groups, as well as some other things. Anyway, I have both Close Combat and Firearms at lvl 2, and Middle Lifestyle for 3 months.

I must admit, a lot of the gear I got was mostly guesswork from various forum postings and such.

And I did want to use Martial Arts, but as I said, the GM is still kinda iffy on using anything but BBB at the moment. At least until he can review them properly.

Don't worry about sounding negative, this is what I asked for.

Hmmm, for some weird reason, the sheet didn't copy over my skill groups, as well as some other things. Anyway, I have both Close Combat and Firearms at lvl 2, and Middle Lifestyle for 3 months.

I must admit, a lot of the gear I got was mostly guesswork from various forum postings and such.

And I did want to use Martial Arts, but as I said, the GM is still kinda iffy on using anything but BBB at the moment. At least until he can review them properly.

Don't worry about sounding negative, this is what I asked for.

Double posts, dont you hate them?

You don't need both of those groups. Trust me, you will never need all those skills. Pistols and one other weapon skill (Automatics, Longarms, or Heavy Weapons) is enough. You could also take pistols, one of the main firearms skills, and then heavy weapons if your taking it for reasons besides the machine guns or if you want to make use of the Ares Alpha under barrel grenade launcher but thats up to you. Same goes with close combat. Unarmed is the main you will need most of the time and since your going for some sort of weapons adept I say you should take blunt weapons. That way you can use it with your firearms in melee if your GM ok's it. If not take blades for the always stealthy knife in the back. Even with those it seems like your skills levels are a bit low. Could you give us a point break down of where you spent everything?

Oooh, double posts.

Anyway, point breakdown is like this:

Attributes: 200
Edge/Magic: 40
Positive Qualities: 15
Negative Qualities: -35
Active Skills (incl. Groups): 148
Contacts: 12
Resources: 20

=400

Yeah it is weird how I could have such low skills, when the book's sample specialist gets more out of them.

You have 40 BP in Negative Qualities. That is not allowed by std. character generation.

Drop Logic to 3 and raise Body to 4.=>More Armor=>More Survivability. Even with BOD 3 you can do better than 6/4 if you got the Arsenal. Armored Clothing is a waste of money. Buy an Armor Vest instead.
With BOD 4 you can get up to 11/9 obvious armor and no penalty or 10/8 concealed armor, if you use the right stuff from Arsenal.

Why does the character have Shadowing but no Infiltration. The Stealth Group IMHO is a much better buy than the Close Combat or Firearms Group.

Combat Sense at 1 doesn't do much, better get it at 4-6.

I assume you wanted to take Nimble fingers to be able to reload without delay. This does not work. You will still have to spend a simple action to do so because you only get one free action per pass and if you perform more than one free action it takes up a simple one. Multi tasking only grants an additional Free Action outside of combat.

Critical Strike is not so great for a character that isn't a Unarmed Specialist doubly so without Killing Hands.

At least for hearing and seeing you can get the same bonus as Enhanced Perception with gear. Glasses with Vision Enhancement and Ear Buds with Audio Enhancement

If you are using SR4A you cannot cram all those enhancements into the contact lenses. Even in SR4 this pair has an Availability way beyond 12.

The Restricted Gear quality and Muscle Toner 4 is a great way to increase your dice pool, if the character has no problems with essence loss.

On Attributes: with only 200 build points that you can spend on Attributes, you need to think about what your character is supposed to be good at. You have a mix of 3's and 4's. Don't be afraid to take a 2 or so, to be able to afford a 5 where you need one.

On special Attributes: Soft-maxed Magic is good, low Edge you can get away with.

Qualities: These look fine, although amnesia and evil twin gives your GM an opportunity to be a real sadist.

Skills: By far the weakest area. You have spent a lot of points, but you have skills of mostly 2's, with a 3 or so. Someone who is a real weapons specialist should have combat skills in the 4 to 6 range. Forget the archetype - the weapons specialist is more of an armorer who likes playing with her toys than any kind of "martial artist". You're trying to do too much. In SR4, you can easily overgeneralize to the point of being nearly useless.

Adept powers: A bit too overgeneralized. You should be focusing on initiative and skill boosts, and other combat-related powers such as combat sense.

The rest: Nothing really bad, but for knowledge skills, remember that you don't have to spend points on your native language; it is simply rated N, for native.

@Glyph Wait with the Skill Boosts till the increased skill is maxed. Otherwise you would pay a lot of needless Karma to raise it further.

Hmm.

I'd dump the Close Combat group in favor of just the Unarmed skill with a specialization in disarm.

maybe you should get all the licenses for the Run ID as well. If there is any way of fast-talking yourself out of a sticky situation it is a lot easier if you are allowed to have the gear you are carrying.

Okay after taking in all the advice, and rereading the books, this si what I have now:

Street Name: Chase
Real Name: Unknown
Race: Human
Character Concept: Weapon Specialist
Alternation (Infection?): Normal
Magicion/Adept: The Warriors Way
Technomancer? No

Attributes:
Body 4
Agility 5
Reaction 4
Strength 3
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 3
Willpower 2

Speical Attributes
Magic 5
Resonance 0
Edge 2
Essence 6

Magic - Grade: 0
Techno - Grade 0

Initiative / Passes 8 / 1 (9 / 2)
Astral Initiative 8
Virtual Initiative 8
Condition (Stun) 9
Condition (Physical) 10

Composure 4
Judge Intentions 6
Lifting and Carrying 7
Memory 5


Qualities (Postiv / Negativ):
Racial: / Normal: Adept (N) (5 BP) - Ambidextrous (5 BP) - Martial Arts (1) (Krav Maga) (5 BP) - Martial Arts (1) (Escrima) (5 BP) - SINner, Standard (-5 BP) - Amnesia [COM] (-10 BP) - Flashbacks - Uncommon [COM] (-5 BP) - Hung Out to Dry [COM] (-10 BP) - Sensitive Neural Structure (-5 BP)

Active Skills:
Stealth Group (2), Automatics (4), Clubs (3), Heavy Weapons (1), Pistols [Semi-Automatics] (4 [6]), Throwing Weapons (2), Unarmed Combat [Martial Arts] (3 [5]), Negotiation [Sense Motive] (2 [4]), Pilot Ground Craft [Wheeled] (1 [3]), Gymnastics [Parkour] (3 [5]), Perception (2), Armorer [Firearms] (2 [4]), Demolitions [Improvised Explosives] (2 [4]), First Aid (1),

Knowledge Skills:
Firearms Design (3), Blades Design (2), Triads (2), Chemistry (2), Safe Houses (2), Engineering (2), Comic Books (2), Arabic (2), Russian (2), German (2), English (N),

Contacts:
Triad Medic [2/5]

Identity
SINs: Real Identity: Unknown (Legal), Ambrose Chase [About Town] (3), Sebastian Reeves [On The Run] (4), / Licences: Firearms [Ambrose Chase] (3), Driving [Ambrose Chase] (3), Firearms [Sebastian Reeves] (3), Driving [Sebastian Reeves] (3),

Weapons
Stun Baton, Hammerli 620S, Hammerli 620S, Ingram Smartgun X, Ares Alpha, + Grenade Launcher,

Armor
Armored Vest [6/4],

Commlink
Hermes Ikon [R:4 / S:3 || Iris Orb [F: 3 / S:3]

Vehicles & Drones:
GMC Bulldog Step-Van (x1),

Adept Powers:
Combat Sense [4], Improved Reflexes I [1], Improved Sense (Vision Enhancement) [1], Improved Sense (Low Light) [1], Great Leap [1], Improved Sense (Hearing Enhancement) [1],

Martial Arts:
Escrima [- Inflict damage when disarm;], Krav Maga [+1 die on Called Shots to disarm; ]
Clinch; Disarm; Finishing Move; Riposte;

Gear:
"1x DocWagon Contract, Basic - 5000¥
1x Subvocal Microphone - 50¥
1x Armored Vest - 600¥
2x 20 Stealth Tags - 10¥
1x Shop (Weapon) - 5000¥
1x Contact Lenses - 50¥
1x + Flare Compensation - 50¥
1x + Image Link - 25¥
1x + Smartlink - 500¥
1x + Thermographic - 100¥
2x Medkit (Rating 3) - 600¥
2x Plasteel Restraints - 100¥
"

I hate Amnesia as a GM.

There's an implication that for some reason it was better for mysterious forces to let you live than putting a bullet in your brain and leaving you out with the trash.

It's also a story arc that has the potential to dominate the game and steal the GMs plot from him unless he has worked it in already.

Its never been an idea that has worked with me as a GM. I would strongly suggest GM clearance on something like that.

But then again I like the RP--great sessions have no combat and lots of good in character things going on. And rarely can a reveal be pulled off as well as anyone at the table hopes it can be.

You still have 40 BPs of Negative Qualities.

Specializations are cheaper if bought with Karma than with BPs.

[Nitpick]Specializations add +2 dice they don't increase the skill by 2. It should be for instance Pistols(Semi-Automatics) 4(+2). Normally this doesn't make much of a difference but sometimes it is critical, especially if you want to shoot two weapons with a single simple action. Dice Pool Modifiers are added after the split.[/Nitpick]

Unless I'm mistaken, you only have gymnastics out of the athletics group. Swimming and climbing with 2 dice may not be such a good idea.

Seconded. As much as I dislike not getting it in Chargen for background/story reasons, getting them in play with karma will help you out quite a bit in the long run. You should have enough karma after your first run to get 3 specs, so you'll catch up there real quick.

I don't understand where the -40 is coming from:

Amnesia -10 -> -10
Hung out to dry -10 -> -20
SINner -5 -> -25
Sensitive Neural Structure (Non-Hacker) -5 -> -30
Flashbacks (Uncommon) -5 -> -35

As far as the specializations, I just added those numbers for my own edification (to remind me that I get those extra dice) than anything else. I can change it later.

I suppose I can try and squeeze some points to get the Athletics group at lvl 1, leaving me 4BP to raise another skill one point.



That was actually my idea. That he was shot in the head, but managed to survive., with some brain damage.

Hmm, I see.

Okay, that frees up about 12 more BP, giving me 16BP to futz with (This is after switching out Gymnastics for Athletics group).

I was talking about him needing to raise his "natural" skills. I agree that you want to get the skill up high before getting the Improved Ability power.


The character looks a lot better. If your GM is using the Anniversary Edition, though, then improved reflexes: 1 only costs 1.5 power points, which gives you 0.5 more power points to spend.

On specializations - they may be "cheaper" to get with karma, but they can really help you survive until you get some. To be blunt, this character still has an unaugmented Agility and combat skills that are not even at the starting maximum for a mundane starting character. Without those specializations, you will only be throwing 7-9 dice before modifiers, which is not quite enough if you plan on an offensive combat role for this guy. I would recommend at least keeping the specializations for the unarmed combat and pistols.

You can still save some points by cutting down on some of the other specializations. I would recommend using those points to get at least some basic social skills, like maybe the Influence skill group at rating: 1. Depends on how much your GM actually uses social skills, and how he runs them. But defaulting to Charisma means one dice, which means the odds of getting even one success are low, and the odds of a critical glitch are a bit too high for comfort.

Okay, making the changes Glyph suggested, my skills now look like this:

Stealth (Group) 2
Armorer 2
Automatics 4
Clubs 3
Demolitions 2
First Aid 1
Heavy Weapons 1
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) 4 (+2)
Throwing Weapons 2
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 3 (+2)
Athletics (Group) 1
Perception 2
Influence (Group) 2

By replacing Negotiation with Influence Group, was able to get it up to lvl 2, and still be able to put the two specs back.

So here is my character now:



EDIT: Swapped a rank in Stealth for a point in Reaction. Also swapped out a couple of powers for Imp. Agility 1.

Question about Specializations: If I read right, if I am using one semi-automatic pistol, I should have about 12 dice in the pool (6 Agi + 4 Pistol +2 Semi-Auto) at the most. But if I have two, then does the +2 get added to both pools, or do I have to split them too?

Do I get 7 dice in each pool (10/2 + 2 each) or do have have to choose between 7/5 (+2 to one, +0 to other) or 6/6 (+1/+1)?

I will have to turn it in soon, so any last thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

This post has been edited by Vermillion: Jan 2 2010, 01:49 AM

Sorry, my math was off.

Oh, no problem.

Okay I have a question about Amnesia (especially after reading about it here on the forums): can it only affect the character and not the player?

Here my line of thought: I want the character to not know where his comes from, but I still want to craft a background for him. He was on a run that went bad, got shot in the head, and left for dead. While he managed to get to a DocWagon in time to live, he went into a coma. The only ID he had was his fake one, so as far as he knew, that is who he was. He had no idea (until game time) that he was a runner, and instead began living a fairly legit life working at a bookstore. Only recently, after a few weird encounters with a street doc that wandered into his store (supposedly), has he began to wonder about his past.

As far as advancement, instead of the standard "train until you get better", I could roleplay him slowly remembering his skill and abilities over time. I thought that Amnesia 2, would do it, but the book says the GM gets to do your character for you, which I do not want. I figured I would talk to him about that, and maybe see if I could play up the cluelessness a bit during the intro session. And it allows for an in-game reason for any rookie screwups I might stumble upon, since my character is just as new to it as I am.

I don't know. How does that sound? Think he would accept it?

Part of what makes amnesia a flaw is that you don't know your own background.

But...

For the lower-cost amnesia, you aren't starting out right from the point where you lost your memory. Obviously, you have a lifestyle, have contacts, and know what you can do. Your background should start from when you first woke up, and detail how you found out what you could do, how you met your contacts, how you went from waking up in an alley to living in an apartment. This can include things like someone from your former life saying "Hey, you were a shadowrunner." But the GM still has the ability to determine whether someone from your past is telling you the whole truth or not. Or whether that person even knows the whole truth about you. Maybe to him, you were one of his runner buddies, but the truth is that you were actually an undercover Lone Star officer. Or maybe he's really your buddy, but he's also the one who wiped out your memory in the first place, and is really hoping the conditioning will hold, so he won't have to kill you to protect his secret.

So yes, you should do a background. But your GM should still reserve the right to change things, or to determine that some of the things he has heard are misinformation.