We were talking about SR weapons and Devon and his Hold Out Pistol came up. This is why he carries one.

Security Zones
-You will be more harassed by your fellow runners than the cops will.
-The Cop will Pull you over and sees your Raecor Sting and laugh at you and the only beating you will get is for wasting their time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Concealability
-Take one put in a Concealable Holster under a Lined Coat
Hold Out Pistol [-4]
Concealable Holster [-1]
Lined Coat [-2]
-Barrel Reduction [-1] I know this makes the range 0–4/6–12 16–24 31–40, but then when was the last time you were packing pistols and fired more than 20m.
For a total of [-8]
-It would take a Female Street Sam being searched by Bill Clinton to find that Walther Palm Pistol. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Fire Power [Don’t Laugh] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
-Give it a Internal Smart Link for Accuracy
-Personalized Grip [Recoil Comp-1]
-EX-Ammo: 5P AP 1, this is a Cavalier Scout, that now is a Concealability -7 Ares Predator and you can start with this.
-APDS: 4P AP-4 this actually can do more damage than Ruger Super Warhawk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

You get...the Noisy Cricket.

Yeah, but should also give him the high-ex-APDS ammo that is needed to make this thing work.^^

I think the firepower is a bit (well, a lot) overstated. 4P AM-4 won't do more dmage than a Ruger Superwarhawk, because most folks packing one of those ALSO load it with specialized ammo. Plus, you'll end up doing stun more often (due to armor)- even with APDS, you could be doing stun in some cases. Not that that is a BAD thing, but for my money you pack a taser for stun- the cops will find it, but won't get upset.
Also, consider that a super-concealable pistol might actually piss cops and security off if they DO find it, especially if its packing "cop killer" ammo. Its not the sort of thing an "honest citizen" with no serious gun training would carry. Sometimes you WANT them to find your gun, so they stop looking for other (more illegal) stuff.

What would be absolutely hilarious is packing it with AV rounds and destroying vehicles with one shot...

Of course there is always the possibility of capsule rounds with DMSO/Narcojet or other drug, and SNS.

A Laes/Slab/DMSO cocktail? Expensive bullets for the enterprising humanitarian?

Yep. Both Capsule rounds and SNS really should have a minimum "caliber", or reduced effects when used in smaller guns, but "by the book" they can make small guns quite deadly.

It's nice to see Slab gaining popularity.

For $1 I could kill a man. For $400 I can knock him unconscious and make him forget the last 6 hours of his life.

Normal bullets are actually $2 apiece, and these cocktail rounds about $383 I think. But your point is correct. It's a bit of a niche thing, too expensive for guards, but useful for abductions where you want to return the subject unharmed (with a shiny new cranial bomb).

On an earlier thread I made a fully automatic Tiffani Defender.

I prefer the Fichetti Tiffani Needler with same mods, that baby has damage code of 8P(f) AP+5, which is pretty amazing for something that concelable.
Ultimate close range killer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Isn't the damage 6P(f)?

In any case, wouldn't a Fichetti Tiffani Self-Defender be better? Modify it to fire SA, which results in the same pistol, but it is able to use any kind of ammunition and not just flechette rounds. Costs only 150 nuyen more (350 base + 300 for the fire selection change = 650, compared to 500 for the Needler).

Errata says 8P(f)

So the answer to that would be no.

How are you giving it accessories? Arsenal says that holdout pistols can't take accessories.

This is a case where I say the errata is just plain wrong. Considering how the weapons are (somewhat) balanced in regard to one another, no hold-out should have a DV of 8P. But, whatever.

He's talking about modifications, which hold-outs can take. At least, I assume he meant the Smartgun System modification.

Ah, I see. There's an accessory version and a modification version.



You're free to houserule that, if you like, but calling the errata 'wrong' is silly. Calling it 'unbalanced' would be much more reasonable.

So, all these uber-undetectable holdouts.. can the bullets be detected by any of the various metal detector devices available?

I assume that bullets in Shadowrun are similar to today's bullets. That is to say, in general they are copper-coated lead, or just plain lead. Therefore, yes. A MAD can detect your weapon's ammunition. So, you get around that by purchasing Hi-C Plastic rounds.

Of course, this doesn't work for the Needler, since the Needler can only use flechettes.

There are bullets that are MAD-undetectable, but they're expensive and pack less punch than the ones people have been talking about in this thread. Hi-C Plastic Rounds, from Arsenal.

efb

pretty sure the only way you'll be destroying vehicles with that thing (other than possibly popping the tire on a bicycle) is if you hand it off to a troll throwing adept.

Put BF mode in it and you got a great weapon for drilling holes !

Ah.. no. BF is not added when calculating if the damage is stun and so you would need just as many hits to damage the vehicle as with SA. For destroying barriers this weapon may actually be useful - as useful as any automatic weapon that is.