Could you spend 1 point of edge to add edge dice in a test (subject to exploding 6's). And then spend another point of edge to either reroll misses (unclear then how the dice rolled due to exploding 6's would work) or roll edge more exploding dice?

Similarly this could be applied up to edge times, so the basic question is can you spend more than 1 edge on a single test?

So no, barring two unusual circumstances, and both involve qualities. One's a Paragon for Technomancers that requires you two spend two points to downgrade a critical glitch to a glitch, and a Mentor Spirit for mages and mystics that does the same.

Now I have to ask why you would spend 2 edge to get a "glitch" rather than spending 1 to reroll.

Because you can't "reroll" a critical glitch only down-grade it to a glitch and the mentor (paragon) negative aspect is you have to spend two points to down-grade instead of one.

Of course you can.

You just can't be sure it won't be a critical glitch, again – which then is good to stay, since you can only spend Edge on a single Test once.

No, you can't reroll a critical glitch; you may only downgrade it to a glitch. You may reroll a glitch or a non-glitch roll to get more successes
Now I don't have my books with me so you will need to wait a few hours till I am at home for a page reference.
I do remember it on the pages describing Edge and its uses though. (Just before character creation IIRC)

You're going to have to quote a rule passage on that, as the way I read it I can "reroll failed dice" on any test. "Can not be used on a critical glitch" is not specified.

You will need to wait till I get home but if you have the book handy look under the effects/rules of critical glitches. I believe it was there and not under the standard "this is what edge does" rules.

(emphasis mine)
The state of 'having rolled a glitch' is determined by the dice pool. If a number of 1's equal to half or more of the dice pool are rolled, then it doesn't matter how many rerolls you make, the critical limit of half the dice pool has been reached, and a Glitch exists.

As far as negating a Critical Glitch, rerolling the dice will not eliminate the state of having Glitched, but it may, possibly, remove the state of having no hits, and so this would be one way of reducing a Critical Glitch to a Glitch.. except that using a point of Edge to do it directly does not risk further failure.

One thing that is not clear is that if you use a point of Edge to directly reduce a Critical Glitch to a Glitch (which is defined as having rolled the critical number of 1's, but with at least one hit), then how many hits are you assumed to have achieved? I would guess 1 hit.

Yes, you can – you can reroll any die on a test that wasn't a hit.

Nope, you can get additional dice from edge as well.

You'll be hardpessed to come up with reference then, because that page doesn't say so, and neither do the glitch rules.

That's pretty dubios, as you can

No. The use of Edge means that the outcome of the roll is determined by the result after the use of edge, and that includes glitches. Otherwise, you would suffer any consequences of the test before the use of edge.

Not 'any consequences', only the existence of a Glitch. The criterion for achieving a Glitch is not based on the total number of dice you roll after rerolls, it is based on your dice pool. If you have a dice pool of 10 and roll 5 "1"s, you have a Glitch, no matter how many more dice you reroll afterwards by spending a point of Edge. That includes rerolling the "1"s. They don't go away because you reroll the dice. They still exist in the total result, and still count for half or more of the dice pool. The only way you can turn a Glitch into a non-Glitch is to use a point of Edge to directly negate the Glitch. That is perfectly clear from the text on page 62 of SR4A.

This same issue applies to dealing with a Critical Glitch. the number of "1"s is compared to the dice pool, and rerolling the "1"s does not make them go away. Since a Critical Glitch is a Glitch with no hits, I argued previously, rerolling can affect the "Critical" part, by getting at least one hit in the rerolls. This still does not affect the Glitch part.

Rereading the text on page 62, it says:

"Note that characters may spend Edge to downgrade a critical glitch to a regular non-catastrophic glitch (p. 74; note that the character still fails)." (emphasis mine)

"Still fails" causes concern here, as it is up for interpretation, especially since the note implies that using Edge this way makes the roll equivalent to a Glitch, which is not a failure, as it has at least one hit.

Any consequences, as the whole point about your argument is that a roll can have an effect before it's final. Glitches are just one of them.

No, it's based on the number of 1s you come up with. That number will change after a reroll.
Of course, changing the dicepool size trough edge is possible, too.

They go away in fact as soon as you pick up the dice – then you check again after the reroll.

In fact, what you claim would require you to note the 1s prior to rerolling even if it's no glitch, because the reroll might generate additional 1s to quailify for a glitch. That is clearly not the case with the rules.

Does a 1 rerolled into a 1 count as one 1 or two?

Assuming pbangarth's rationale, it would count as two, as somehow, the 1s carry over.

Of course, no rule like that exists.

What if my dice pool is 6, and before rolling I add my 4 edge:

Do I need three 1s for a glitch, or five?

The real fun there is that you'll only know your dice pool size after the roll, since 6es explode.

Dubious... Exploding Sixes provide the opportunity for a more robust success (and would be part of the dice pool if you spent Edge prior to the roll, thus increasing your dice pool), However, using the Edge to Reroll already rolled dice does not work quite that way, as it is not an inclusion of a "greater" dicepool... On a single roll, the chances of a Critical Glitch is generally not very great, unless your dice pool is very small... now, when rolling Extended Actions (and using the reducing dicepool option) it becomes increasingly more likely that you will suffer a Critical Glitch on any single roll as your dicepool reduces for each successive roll... it becomes a matter of how far do you wish to push your luck, as eacah roll is a seperate entity to the accumulating sucesses of the Extended Roll.

If you only have a couple of dice (say 3) and you obtain 2 1's and no success, it is a Critical Glitch... you can attempt to reroll all the dice (reroll Failures) but even so, your Critical Glitch will still be there regardless of the roll, as you used edge to try to obtain a success after the fact... whether or not hte reroll comes up with any successes or not, you have still Critically Glitched... the Edge expenditure does not negate The Critical Glitch (as pbangarth pointed out from the text on page 74, regarding Failure), and since you did not spend the Edge point to actually move from Critical Glitch to Glitch, it is a Catastrophic Failure... Much worse than that Glitch roll would have been had you just spent the edge to move down to a normal Glitch... Works best in relation to Extended Rolls Obviously...

And if you sepnt Edge prior to the Roll for the Exploding Successes and still generate a Critical Success, well your Luck has run out, as you will not be able to negate the Catastrophe at all...

How I have always read it anyways... other wise the Critical Glitch rules mean absolutely nothing...

Keep the Faith

That is not the case.

No, spending Edge to reroll negates als the Non-Hits, including 1s and replaces the result with the one after the reroll. Only then you check for a Glitch. So it may negate the Glitch, or it may not.

Which is just plain wrong, as it neither says what it think it says, nor does it on p. 74.

If you use any other rationale, then Critical Glitches have absolutely no use in the game... if you can just reroll, rather than downgrade for the same expenditure (wiping away the Crit Glitch in the process), then your Edge rules lose cohesiveness... Show me where that interpretation is WRONG... otherwise why have Critical Glitches at all?

Though I will Admit, I did not reference pbangarth's reference... and after doing so, it is missing the additional emphasized sentence in his post... However, I would agree with the intention that pbangarth is emphasizing... otherwise, that use of Edge for downgrading a Critical Glitch is utterly useless... and several rules that rely upon such rules actually working are no longer useful (See the Mentor previously mentioned for one example)...

Of course, this may be a moot point anyways, dependipng upon how often your edge pool refreshes... some things are just not worth the effort of negating... take what you roll, which I admit is my usual tactic unless it REALLY Matters, which most things do not (at least in my opinion) in the grand scheme of things, within the game...

Had a long and arduous night of gaming last night... maybe I am still just a touched shell-shocked... or Maybe I am just losing it all toghether...

In the end, you just may be right Rotbart Van Dainig...

Keep the Faith

If your dice pool is small, and you don't have a high Edge attribute either, rerolling or adding Edge is quite a risk to get stuck with a critical glitch again. So you should just spend Edge to negate the glitch and just fail.

If you have a large dicepool or high Edge, you can try. Just don't whine when it doesn't work out.

Here is the definition of "Dice Pool":

Here is the definition of "modifier":

Here is the one and only way Edge changes the Dice Pool:
(emphasis mine)
Nowhere else in the discussion of Edge does it say the dice pool is modified by rerolls. In fact what is said is that after rerolls the extra hits are added to the test's total hits. Not add all the dice. Add the hits. The dice pool is not changed by rerolls, only the count of hits.

So, you cannot create a Glitch or a critical Glitch with rerolls. If the Glitch (Critical or not) did not exist before the reroll, it will not exist after the reroll. Vice versa, if the Glitch existed before the reroll, it remains after the reroll. Since hits are added by rerolls, the possibility exists for an interpretation that allows a Critical Glitch to be turned into a regular Glitch through rerolling dice that did not hit, as the reroll may create hits where they did not exist before. I don't believe this fits the spirit of the rules, but the wording is loose enough on this point to be interpreted more than one way.

I'm inclined to go with you on this one. When you re-roll you failed die, you don't have any 1's any more, you DON'T have any 1's, which means no glitch.

Can you cite a page reference for this, cause this seems rather counter intuitive to me, and I would disagree with you on this point. When rolling dice one should only be concerned with the final result. If there are no 1's in the final result because they were rerolled into 2+'s then there is no glitch, critical or otherwise in the result.

Which is neither relevant, nor what I was talking about.

Rerolls don't add hits, they reroll the dice not showing any:


Sure you can. After the reroll, you check if the result qualifies for a Glitch or Critical Glitch.

So this is just plain wrong.

First: You may only re-roll the dice in a test if ALL of the dice fail to generate any hits.
Second: You may negate the EFFECTS of a glitch or critical glitch.
Notice that it does not say you re-roll the dice when you are negating a glitch; you just get to ignore the dice that come up as ones.

For the negation of a critical glitch:

Now, I will agree that there is nothing that I see so far to stop someone from just spending a edge to re-roll a critical glitch since it is a test that has not generated any hits. However, I believe there was something about that in old SR4 book (non-anniversary) about a glitch or critical glitch take president over any other expenditure of edge. I will need to keep looking.