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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 20 2010, 02:19 PM
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No, you don't a Sim Module for that. You just need a trode net or any implant.
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Draco18s
post Mar 20 2010, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Valashar @ Mar 20 2010, 07:59 AM) *
And let this be a cautionary tale for the Runners out there: Make sure you let your hacker load up your link and ware with whatever defensive works they've got available. Even if it's just a biofeedback filter to help protect your brain. If you've got the space, have them load up one form of icebreaker agent or another. And if your hacker is a TM with sufficient charisma, having a defensive sprite loaded up into each team member's PAN hub does the same trick.


Agent, Armor, Shield, and Blackhammer.

*Alert user*
There was a break-in. I took care of it. Enemy hacker is dead.
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Saint Sithney
post Mar 20 2010, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 20 2010, 06:19 AM) *
No, you don't a Sim Module for that. You just need a trode net or any implant.


Wouldn't you need a sim rig to translate the signals from the trodes to something your gun could understand in terms of murderation? I know an installed smartlink has a specialist system for such matters, but I didn't think the trodes could work with a pure head to com/gun connection..
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hobgoblin
post Mar 20 2010, 06:59 PM
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while the smartlink system held a limited sim rig in SR3, its much more compact in SR4.

heck, the basic functions can be provided via glasses, goggles or contacts that house a image link and the display end of a smartlink system.

there are some other benefits to a smartlinked gun however, beyond the extra dice on attacks. Namely, turning some actions into free actions when said gun is accessed over direct neural interface.

sadly, there is no comprehensive list, that i know of, over what implants and devices that provide a direct neural interface.

what i can say tho is that a sim module is not a requirement for DNI.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 20 2010, 07:32 PM
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When Shadowrun says Direct Neural Interface, we are talking about four (4) different things or levels:

DNI "trigger" allows you to turn on and off any implant – a basic switch, can be a manual, subdermal, remote, wifi or automatic, linked as well. (The last resort to kick someone out of your head)
DNI "control" allows you to operate any implant – think keyboard, mouse. (Get the implant with a Hardware Restriction so this is the only, non-revocable admin access)
DNI "integration" makes the implant a part of your body – cybereyes, cyberarms, you name it. (Yeah, Hardware Restriction by default)
DNI "interface" allows you to recieve (and partly generate) simsense – trodes, datajacks, and implanted commlinks, implanted sim modules. (The hole in your head)

If you linked everything, any single implant will give you DNI "control".
Sim Modules need to be timely configured for a user by the user, so the hacker can't just supply the sim module to Fry Brainz himself. That's what makes carrying running simmodules with active network so dangerous and implanted ones twice as risky. If you run Know- & Lingua-Softs off them, keep them seperated from the rest of the PAN.
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Udoshi
post Mar 21 2010, 12:14 AM
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Hate to break it to you, but a hacker dedicated to flipping you into VR at a moment's notice doesn't even need you to have a VR unit. Why?

Sim modules are external units. Some are built into your commlink. Some aren't. Some are in simrigs(external versions are like trodes), or even in simdecks. But the point is you can have a sim unit that isn't part of your regular equipment - and connect to it to get the benefit. The choice is up to the user - whether that's through a fiberoptic hardlink(Datajack plugged into a commlink, decker style), with DNI(Trodes, for example) - or wireless.

Now we're cooking with fire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

An intruder with admin can form subscription links no problem.

Even worse, the hotness of the signal isn't dependent on how the VR unit's being connected to. Its a function of the sim unit itself. Uh oh.

So a clever hacker can carry around a spare, wireless enabled, hot-sim hacked Sim Module for the sole purpose of linking -other- people's wifi enabled DNI to.(Trodes are signal 0, remember?). Throw in a psychotropic-optioned blackout(Do the Thriller at 11:59 am in front of the yamatetsu building on main street) and you have comedy. (One month test to code? Totally worth it. Or thread it.)

Or a terrorist attack in the making.
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Dixie Flatline
post Mar 21 2010, 05:20 AM
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QUOTE (lunavoco @ Mar 19 2010, 01:56 PM) *
I'm familiar with the GitS: SAC series. That was the original inspiration for this character. I posted a while back about making a super class A hacker like motoko a while back. I'm still looking into how to pull it off ingame. The character's dobe (we start into runs this Wed) and i'm finishing up the novel of a back story i have prepared. When i finish it this weeken i'll post both in the original thread.

My GM has ruled that live footage manipulation would require a program other than Edit. We spent the better part of an evening going back and forth on it. In the end, it was decided that a completely new program be created. We are currently looking for a name for this new program that would be limited to doing on-the-fly video edits. Any sugestions?

(found the original thread here)


As a GM I would seriously allow perception rolls to notice that your sight feed was being altered. Maybe hiding a book on a table in the edge of the vision of the mark might be pretty reliable, but to edit an entire field of view with perfect, believable accuracy would boarder on the impossible. You're talking about Ultraviolet level VR, which requires mainframes of unbelievable power to accomplish in the setting. I'd be loathe to allow such a program to run on a freaking commlink.

Now, if you want to hide items in a field of view, you could write a program that samples the area around the item to hide, replicates it, and creates an icon over the item, thus creating a sort of virtual mimetic camouflage. Moving, or the item being moved, naturally decreases the effectiveness seriously.

I might call this program "Nothing There". As in "I look on the table, what do I see?" "Nothing There."

However, Predator (for the cloaking field effect that the moving mimetic camo would create) is far more cool. Perhaps if I was feeling generous I would grant that an item/person under the effect of the camo was relatively impervious to called shots, even if the mark is aware of the camo.
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Draco18s
post Mar 21 2010, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Mar 20 2010, 08:14 PM) *
Sim modules are external units. Some are built into your commlink. Some aren't. Some are in simrigs(external versions are like trodes), or even in simdecks. But the point is you can have a sim unit that isn't part of your regular equipment - and connect to it to get the benefit. The choice is up to the user - whether that's through a fiberoptic hardlink(Datajack plugged into a commlink, decker style), with DNI(Trodes, for example) - or wireless.


I call bullshit. I fail to see how I, a complete mundane, using a cellphone can get hit with VR and black hammered.

I don't have cybereyes to perceive the VR. I don't have a datajack or other DNI device. I'm not even wearing goggles, glasses, or contacts.

You'd have to get the trodes on me first, won't you?
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SpellBinder
post Mar 21 2010, 06:18 AM
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In the hardware sense, yes. SR4a, page 328; A sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted commlink, etc). Just holding a commlink that happens to have a sim module built into it is by no means enough.

A technomancer with the Skinlink and Resonance Trodes echos can do the same with just a touch, but success is not automatic if the subject is resisting. Don't know about you, but being grappled by someone who's trying to do a Vulcan mind meld with me is gonna be resisted.
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Saint Sithney
post Mar 21 2010, 06:57 AM
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Trodes are so common in 2070 that most fashion includes them in its design. If you could control your computer with a thought for the same price as a wireless mouse, wouldn't you? To the average person, the paranoia of thinking someone will pop into your com, link in a hot sim and psycho-wack you is a far smaller threat than just getting stabbed stepping out the door in the morning.

To a runner, such paranoia is justified, but I'd say there are plenty of marks out there waiting to get dragged into VR and have their brains ate up.

As to Ultraviolet nodes being hot shit, by SR 2072 they're like an old Silicon Graphics comp would be today. SotA 15-years ago is mundane in present time. Once the nanotech barrier was breached, computers would have gotten unbelievably more powerful and compact. Which reminds me that I need to work on a quantum computing scenario later...
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SpellBinder
post Mar 21 2010, 07:13 AM
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Keeping trodes in fashionable headware for the common wageslave? Not too a good idea if you want to stay in business.

Even though it's not possible for a technomancer to do so, the average person does believe a technomancer can hack your brain, and AFAIK that propaganda is still believed by the majority of the uneducated masses. So why willingly wear an accessory that has trodes built into it linked up to your off-the-shelf commlink to give a boogieman like a technomancer nearly free reign to your gray matter? Then there's the propaganda against hot sims, and even running cold a dumpshock can give a person a splitting headache.

Unless there were several grunts in any of the books (skimmed SR4a and I didn't see that any have trodes base, let alone an implanted commlink), or anything to suggest that the average wageslave has a trode net on him along with that low-end commlink on their wrist, I wouldn't assume that said average wageslave is going to have trodes on.
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Saint Sithney
post Mar 21 2010, 07:33 AM
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Brother's gotta access that knowsoft somehow.. and we all know how club kids love to get bombarded with waves of sim signals while they run through their eX. I run a considerably wired up world full of disaffected near-nihilistic thrill seekers. YMMV.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 21 2010, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Mar 21 2010, 01:14 AM) *
Hate to break it to you, but a hacker dedicated to flipping you into VR at a moment's notice doesn't even need you to have a VR unit.

Hate to break it to you:
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 20 2010, 08:32 PM) *
Sim Modules need to be timely configured for a user by the user, so the hacker can't just supply the sim module to Fry Brainz himself.

See Unwired, p. 45.

The whole chain needs to be calibrated by the user as that involves wetware feedback (so the given simense signal is correctly perceived as a sense), which a hacker can't provide.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 21 2010, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE (Dixie Flatline @ Mar 20 2010, 10:20 PM) *
As a GM I would seriously allow perception rolls to notice that your sight feed was being altered. Maybe hiding a book on a table in the edge of the vision of the mark might be pretty reliable, but to edit an entire field of view with perfect, believable accuracy would boarder on the impossible. You're talking about Ultraviolet level VR, which requires mainframes of unbelievable power to accomplish in the setting. I'd be loathe to allow such a program to run on a freaking commlink.

Now, if you want to hide items in a field of view, you could write a program that samples the area around the item to hide, replicates it, and creates an icon over the item, thus creating a sort of virtual mimetic camouflage. Moving, or the item being moved, naturally decreases the effectiveness seriously.

I might call this program "Nothing There". As in "I look on the table, what do I see?" "Nothing There."


That program already exists for the game... it is an ARE Program called Negator, cost a whopping 100 Nuyen and is availability 4...
It is from Unwired...

Keep the Faith
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Fatum
post Mar 21 2010, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 21 2010, 08:28 PM) *
That program already exists for the game... it is an ARE Program called Negator, cost a whopping 100 Nuyen and is availability 4...
It is from Unwired...

Keep the Faith


Yeah, but it erases the items you want not to see, not the item owner.
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hobgoblin
post Mar 21 2010, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 21 2010, 11:57 PM) *
Yeah, but it erases the items you want not to see, not the item owner.

hack comlink, install program, and presto.
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Fatum
post Mar 22 2010, 01:24 AM
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I believe you can easily see the programs running on your link. So it's more complicated than that.
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hobgoblin
post Mar 22 2010, 02:10 AM
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heh, so what is needed is the SR equivalent of a root kit? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

hey, i think i found just the thing. Unwired, p123, ringworms.

basically its a agent with edit and stealth.
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Fatum
post Mar 22 2010, 02:56 AM
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Aha. So you have to spend months writing it (or just need to buy the expensive Agent if your gm is cooperative) instead of just planting the program and forgetting about it.
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hobgoblin
post Mar 22 2010, 03:12 AM
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if you want it hard to get rid of, then yes.

i guess you could nail it together using a existing agent with a similar loadout.

agents are very flexible that way.
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Saint Sithney
post Mar 22 2010, 07:59 AM
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Couldn't you just optimize it, drop it in their com, and stealth it same as the agent would?
Or, option #2, capture the video feed, route it through your own com and dump the altered feed back into the hacked device. Any time lag would be imperceptible since wifi in SR is massive bandwidth and all EM waves travel around three hundred million meters per second.
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