Well, my problem with the word "addiction" is that an addiction does not just encompass withdrawal symptoms if the addict can't get his kick. An addict develops a constantly increasing tolerance (which has to be met with a higher doses or spending more time on it), his thinking becomes compulsively focused on getting the next fix, and all parts of his life and person start deteriorate exponentially over time.

If you just define hot sim addiction as "he needs it and starts acting funny when not jacked in for some time", most technomancers certainly are addicted or at least close. But if you consider the full consequences of an addiction you would doom every emerged character - the physiological and psychological consequences of an addiction will not let somebody survive for long in the sprawl, much less will a burnout addict be capable of shadowrunning.

Sure... which is why by default, they do not have the Addiction Quality... But I would say that they certainly could if the player (and GM) thought that it was appropriate... my only problem with applying the quality is that they can always fulfill the addiction, since they are just a thought away... so it is generally inappropriate in that regard, thoguh I guess that it is no different than a character addicted to Longhaul, as long as he has planned accordingly...

You can place a Technomancer out of the VR realm though, as they are able to use AR to hack with... so I guess, that they could "Kick" the habit of VR by not using it until "Cured" of the addiction, but for a Technomancer specifically, it can become a never ending cycle of addiction and therapy, as they always have access to the addictive substance... no different from a Hacker, actually, but it is easier for a Hacker to avoid VR than it is for a Technomancer...

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I'd expect pretty much all TM's would have both SIM and matrix addictions, in the same sense that a lot of internet users have net addictions (I know I do) or coffee drinkers have cafine addictions (again, self confessed). And so what? I think its safe to assume that being a TM makes you immune to the worst effects of SIM addiction (seeing as the SIM is part of your natural neurology), and if you aren't getting your matrix fix as a TM, you are doing something very wrong.

One way to model this would be to give the character a mild allergy / phobia (regarding prolonged periods without matrix / hot SIM use) and immunity to hot sim addiction (or at least any lasting physical effects there-from).

And how does a TM percieve the AR? With his biological, "hot" sim-module (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hot sim addiction is not an addiction to using the matrix via VR, it's an addiction to the neurological stimulation from a sim module. And just like an alcoholic cannot just have a few beer with his friends, a hot sim addict would be in trouble even when exposed to signal levels which are considered safe for healthy persons. The only way an addicted hacker (emerged or not) could kick his habit would be to restrict himself to AR gloves and image links...even that could be too close to the real thing and cause a relapse.

If hot sim is addictive for technomancers (and not just in the sense we are "addicted" to seeing or hearing), they are screwed. They wouldn't just fade like otaku, but really burn out or become completely nuts (ie. dissonant) when they grow older.

Um, actually... no. (To the first part) Per the information in Unwired, you need to keep a sharp distinction between the 'Mancer's inate ability to interact with the digital world around them and their biological node. When they aren't VR, they're "perceiving" the AROs around them and interacting subconciously, but in no way is it VR - they aren't vulnerable to Black IC or similar attacks. So if they restricted themselves to AR only, they'd be fine. But again, it's just a genuine high, not instantly addictive. Otherwise, all 'Mancers and high-end Deckers would be drooling veggies with IVs hooked up to permanent NutriJacks™ in their arms.

And thanks for finding the right Echo for me (Mesh Reality) Sengir. You knew what I meant even if I was too lazy to double check what I wrote. I'm really new to dealing with the detailed Crunchy Bits™ of Technomancers, so I'm nowhere as fluent as I am with say, the Awakened. The idea I was trying to pass was that with a pile of Echoes, a 'Mancer could get to 4 Meat OR VR passes and a 5^th pass in VR only but able to be in both simultaneously for just a net -2 penalty with the right other Echoes. The problem, of course, is that people with four passes have this tendency OOC to start thinking they're Samurai, right up until the Bad Guy hoses them down with lead and they discover that speed alone does not a Sammy make.

Well Said... Much better than I said...

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Unwired p.35 says:



Which to me means that they suffer no penalties for using hot-sim and cannot be addicted.

e-scapists sounds to me like the VR equivalent of "comfort" eaters.

No, when in AR he can still walk around -- the Matrix is overlayed on reality. When in VR, his body goes limp because he's not really "there" anymore -- it's like an astrally perceiving mage.

I feel that that means he suffers from the addiction with no mechanical representation of that... the fluff clearly indicates that withdrawal from Hot-SIM VR is hard on a Technomancer... they have all the indicators of Addiction, just none of the mechanical drawbacks... it is a social thing...

Interpretation, I know, but there it is...

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I didn't claim that they are in VR, I pointed out that even in AR, a technomancer is still using the equivalent of a sim module. A sim module is the "modem" which translates computer signals into neural input, so everybody who is using a trode net, implanted DNI, or his "biological commlink" to acess AR is still using a sim module. And if you are addicted to the neural feed from a sim module after using a too strong signal for too long, that means perceiving AR with a sim module is feeding the habit and will trigger the urge to get MORE - just like a person who got addicted to alcohol after too many strong drinks can't just cure himself by drinking only beer. Even if it's the worst watery piss beer.



And 100 virtual cookies to Achsin for a RAW reference, although I certainly enjoyed the discussion.

No doubt that it is the Sim Module interface that you have to contend with, but even without HOT Mods, it is STILL the SIM Module that is interpreting the signal for the brain... you can use a Hot-SIM Modded module and still transmit at acceptable limits so that you are not experienceing the HOT SIM Effect... you do that always in Cold SIM and AR as a matter of fact... It is not until you boost that signal to Hot Sim Levels that you will have a problem...

The fact that you can satisfy the addiction by just a thought is the real problem with addiciton to HOT-SIM VR... the levels of Cold SIM and AR are just not strong enough, and that Hot Sim is just a blink away... the fact that you get additional benefits (along with the obvious drawbacks) is why using that HOT-SIM is so tempting... Using it is just positive reinforcement, and it will likely make you just want to go right back to it whenever you are accessing the Matrix (assuming that you are in a position to do so that is, not everyone likes just going limp in public places)... After all, you are powerful in HOT VR (yeah I know, +2 Dice is not POWERFUL, but it is the rush of that additional ability that is really addicting)...

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Keep the Faith

There Matrix sense is as inborn for them as sight is. It you were suddenly blind, you would edgy and scared too. When they are cut off form the matrix they react like a they have just become blind or deaf, suddenly. In effect they have. That doesn't sound like an addiction to me.

Christ, do I have to repeat the alcoholic example again? Exposing an addict to his vice triggers the addiction mechanims hardwired in the brain. It does not matter how much you water it down.

What you are missing is that a Technomancer is really no different from a Hacker in the regard that they can use a Hot-SIM Modified Module in modes that do not expose them to those levels of signal by using Cold Sim or AR...You are right that it is a risk, and I have stated it as such... but it can be avoided if desired... expecially since the Technomancer does not HAVE to use those HOT-SIM Levels to be on the Matrix...

For example... Just because an alchoholic is susceptible to alchoholic drinks (those things that play upon his addiction), he is not triggering the behavior if he drinks Tea... By the same Token, Just because a Technomancer has a problem with Hot-SIM doe snot mean thta he has the same problem with AR or Cold SIM... they are completely different things (There are No Hot Modified SIM Signals, which is his trigger)

The fact is that he will need to resist to temptation... Yes... but as a Technomancer does not actually have that addiction (They cannot gain it by RAW, though I do think it could be very thematic) as a negative quality, there is no real mechanical effect to resolve, and it becomes all fluff...

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Technomancers don't use sim modules at all. They project themselves in the matrix and not through a sim module. They are not abusing there brains like a hot sim hacker would with a sim module or some one using BTL. Technomancers can have lot of flaws or even vices that are self imposed, BTL from using there inborn talents is not one of them.

Ethanol and caffeine are two completely different substances...


...whereas the difference between hot and cold simsense is merely in the peak levels of the signal, which equates the concentration of an addictive chemical.

I think the idea of Technomancers being penalized for something that they do instinctively is just bad. I mean come on, in the very beginning TM's suck and they suck BADLY! Why hit them any harder than what they're getting hit with already? Do you penalize Sammy for their 'ware? Do you punish the Awakened for their magic?

Technomancers have an automatic biofeedback filter based on their Charisma. The Biofeedback filter shields them from the bad effects of simsense (pg 233 SR4A):

*shrug* It's possible that's how simsense works, Sengir. It's a game and we don't know. Hot sim may be qualitatively different from cold sim; it certainly functions in a categorically different way in the game mechanics of Black IC. Hot sim addiction also certainly functions wholly separate from cold sim in the game mechanics as well.

In fairness, KCKitsune, focus addiction is a big problem, and even augmentation addiction exists. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You may want to check up on focus addiction again. You have to be running your magic rating x 2 in active foci on a regular basis to even qualify. For a starting mage (with easily achievable 5 magic), that is a combined total of 10 from all their foci.

Also, as was already posted, TMs are immune to Hot-SIM addiction (this is different from something that acts like an addiction, such as Media-junkie, which is very similiar to a TMs addiction to wireless signals)

Luckily it is a game with source books, Unwired has a chapter on simsense (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The only difference between hot and cold sim are certain parts which get filtered out by a peak controller: Signals which would fry the brain instead of merely stimulating it, everything that messes with the autonomous nervous system (breathing, heartbeat etc.), and too frequent or too strong stimulation of the "pleasure centers" in the brain. Everything else remains the same, and there is also mention of sublimal advertisement via AR.

That is, the effects of hot sim may be qualitatively different from cold sim. The fact that they are very similar in form doesn't change that at all.

I feel like 10 points of foci is a tiny threshold, but your mileage may vary.

If you aren't holding onto a decent rating power focus, maybe. Otherwise that is room for a rtg 4 power focus and 2 rtg 3 sustaining without chance for addiction.

On the subject of Hot-SIM addiction I would say that cold sim would not immiediately restart the addiction process because it isn't the same amount of stimulus trigger. It feels less than real instead of more than real ... in fact, I could see it being used as a substitute for addicts, much like how we use Methadone currently.

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with this. Continuing the alcoholic comparison, it's like handing one a beer and saying it's not real liquor because the concentration's lower.

Which is so easy to get (10 points of Foci) that it is not even funny... Hell, I have seen characters with high Teen levels (the one I remember was about 17 points worth) of Foci in the past...



They are indeed not-susceptible to the actual mechanics of SIM Addiction... but the fluff describes a pretty good picture of an addict when they are disconnected... there is no mechanics (as I have said earlier), but it is a great roleplaying thing in my opinion... and it is interesting that you chose to use Wireless Signal Addiction for the Technomancers, because by the mechanics, they do not have that either... they just act like they do when they are disconnected... interesting indeed)...

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