Please read the thread.

I've read the thread, I haven't seen my point adequately addressed. There was a lot about the wording of edge focused on the idea that the glitch is an effect of the test, and rerolling the test changes the glitch. I'm saying that the glitch is independent of the results of the test, and is a result of the initial roll.


RAW for glitch says that if half the pool comes up 1s then there's a glitch, and the only way to remove it is to burn edge. The result of the roll (glitch) being independent of the outcome of the test means that rerolling to change the effect of the test does not negate the glitch.

The fact that rerolling the dice changes the roll was pointed out, too.

No, RAW does not state an "the only way".

Your don't burn edge either.

You're being overly pedantic. You're trying to make out that there's some non-existent difference between a roll and a test. There isn't. Well, not unless it's an Extended Test which consists of multiple rolls/tests, but even that has nothing to do with what you're trying to say.

"Roll" is basically the verb form of "test" in the rules. Rolling is the action, test is the action being performed. But it's all the same thing. If you're rolling your Pistols + Agility dice, you're making a Pistols + Agility test. They mean exactly the same thing and are treated exactly the same way. The choice of words is based solely on how those words are being used in a sentence.

That said, "if half or more of the dice pool rolled come up as 1s, then a glitch results" would read "if you make a test and half or more of the dice pool comes up 1s, then a glitch results" if the author decided to change how he was saying it. And, they mean exactly the same thing. It's just a choice of words and has zero impact on the rules. Despite, you know, your attempt to try and portray them as different concepts.

The misconception here is that spending Edge influences the test directly in the case of a reroll.

It doesn't.
Spending Edge in this case allows you to reroll dice, redefining the roll prior to that – and only thus influencing the test.

Yes, I know. That misconception comes solely from the belief that "roll" and "test" are two different concepts in the rules. Hence my previous post.

And even if that belief would be true, in the specific wording of this way to spend Edge, it's the dice that are directly affected, not the test.

So basically what everyone is saying is that there is not such thing as a glitch or a crit. glitch because you can always just spend an edge to reroll and you eliminate it. Or you can spend an edge and negate the effects of the glitch or crit. glitch, but why do that is you can just reroll and the glitch never happened? Or you can spend an edge and downgrade a crit glitch to a regular glitch (still failing), but again why do that when you can just reroll and none of it ever happened?

It would be nice to have a dev comment on this because there has to be something to this otherwise the glitch rules are totally worthless.

Again: Because you could come up with a glitch again when rerolling. And as you only can spend one point of edge, your would be stuck with it.

Because you can run out of Edge (not everyone runs around with Edge 6+)? Because glitches aren't worth wasting Edge on (you still succeed on a glitch, you know)? Because both Edge and critical glitches are stupid mechanics, so you may as well have one negate the other? Take your pick.


Only if you look at it from a narrow perspective.

Pg 60 defines a test as "rolling dice and determining the outcome"

Test encapsulates the entire process. roll, use edge effects, apply successes against threshhold/opposed hits/what have you, determine effects.

1 roll =/= 1 test

Sounds to me that the misconception here comes solely from the belief that "roll" and "test" are not two different concepts in the rules.

pendantic, adj. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms

Not at all, I'm trying to avoid letting the broader concept be overlooked in favor of the minute rules lawyering so prevalent in this, and any other, thread on this forum.

the explicit inclusion of using edge to negate a glitch, implicitly states that if you do not use edge to negate it, it does not go away. even if you reroll the dice to attempt a more favorable outcome for the test overall, something has still gone wrong. It did so the moment that glitch hit the table.

Not so.

In this case the test would go as follows

Roll (glitch)-spend edge to reroll dice that didn't score a hit-determine total number of Hits-determine outcome (with glitch)
or
Roll (glitch)-spend edge to negate/downgrade glitch-determine total number of Hits-determine outcome (without glitch)

Edit: Changed "Successes" to "hits"

Reverse.

Not defined that way by RAW.

I'm awed by your eloquence, but forgive me if I'm not satisfied by the emphasis you put on "nuh-uh!"

I think that we forgot to answer the original question by the way.

No RAW states one use of edge per test. If you use it b4 for you cant after.

Answered it.

Your entire argument hinges completely on a make-believe rule of your own devising. Why should anyone's response be any more substantial?

My argument hinges on a direct excerpt from the core book. It's a pretty clear statement in black and white.



If half the dice are ones, it's a glitch.
If you want to make a glitch go away, spend Edge

No amount of Grammatical tomfoolery with the edge rules changes this clear statement.

Though a permanent guard power is much better then spending edge you just don't glitch at all any more.

Correct. The only problem is that you can use Edge to reroll all those ones (and twos, and threes, and fours) by spending Edge on that, instead. Or, you could just roll (Edge) dice with exploding 6's and add those dice to the test, negating the glitch or critical glitch that way. All three options result in a non-glitch, though two of them are completely dependent upon luck. "No amount of grammatical tomfoolery" changes that fact.


Sorry, guy. You're the one clinging to and relying entirely upon "grammatical tomfoolery."

I believe you are wrong. The glitch exists as an independent variable.

Edit: to clarify.
You can change all the ones to sixes, but you can't change the fact that they were there. That's why, even if you spend a point to reduce a crit glitch to a normal glitch, critical glitches are always auto-fail.

You can by virtue of rerolling them. Hence the use of the word "reroll."