Well, yes. You'll obviously buy that in every case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Still, everyone will also get a Smartlink, 99% of the time.

I know that you can in SR. What I mean is that I don't think anyone can dodge a grenade. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Dodge... Maybe not... get the hell out of the blast area if you see it coming, your darn tooting that everyone and their grandmother would try that... you do have a few seconds after all (in the best of circumstances anyway, I knew a Marine that was good enough with his grenades that he could keep them in teh air until they exploded... most of the time anyways... makes a great airburst effect to say the least)... One of the reasons that we were taught to hurl a grenade into a room for clearing purposes (and by hurl, I mean HURL) is to get a lot of bounce in the device... makes it a lot harder to just catch/pick up and thow back... which people will try if they have no other choice... I am of the opinion that if you are not all that high up in a building, going through the window is a viable alternative to having the weapon blow up with you in the area of effect...

Keep the Faith

Right. That's what I mean. They get a turn to take a move action, which is not the same as dodge the grenade.

A Pass anyways... not a full turn... the grenade goes off at the end of the next pass (or end of the turn, whichever comes first?)...

Keep the Faith

It goes off at the initiative of the thrower, in the next pass, regardless of whether the character gets to act or not.

i think the reason for a primary target, is to make the use of a grenade not grind the game to a halt.

toss a grenade at a security team of 5, and suddenly the GM have to make 10 dice rolls if each gets a dodge then a save against damage.

with a primary target getting a save, and the grenade ends up outside of the target zone, the GM can instead just declare the blast throwing some stuff around (and maybe the odd devil rat). 4 less dice rolls, 9 if it miss fully.

as always when talking about SR4 rules changes may well be about speed rather then accuracy of events.

Well, yes, (Tymeaus, Draco18s), that's what I meant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that everyone gets a 'Turn', or that everyone gets a free move. It's a grenade, the best they can *hope* for is to try to move away, if they're fast.

Hobgoblin, that's exactly why all grenades should be targeted at the floor (= target's feet, or maybe 'leading' them). It's better for balance and speed both if aiming at a person isn't even an option. Unless it's a sticky grenade from Halo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Gotta love those sticky plasma grenades...

Keep the Faith

Does anyone know what motivated the Scatter table change?

Was it done under the assumption that players were always targeting a location instead of targeting enemies, which allowed them to ignore the Defense test?

Or is it because the Defense Test (with a -2) and the previous Scatter Test was not enough to mitigate the power of explosives?

Or because they felt like it?

Clever marketing plot to sell more Ares Heimdahls.

If I had to guess, the goal was to make sure that any hits the players got on their rolls didn't go to waste since the rule for what to do with your extra hits once you reduce scatter to zero was taken away.

Personally, I never saw anything wrong with original SR4's rule that let you stage the damage up against your nominated target. There's a difference between a grenade that detonates 6 cm from your left foot, and one that catches a perfect bounce at the end of a cooked-off throw to go off a cm from your face, but at the increments used for the scatter rules, they're both less than 1 meter away from you. Your buddy, 3 meters away, is still going to feel the same blast in either scenario, but you, as the thrower's primary target, are going to be hurting a lot more from the latter.

But someone in the Powers That Be got it in their head that grenades are "easy" and that players who would throw to a location instead of a target were trying to get something for nothing. Then they went and removed from the rules the one incentive for a skilled thrower to actually target a person and not a location, as if to retroactively prove their point. I personally think grenades are supposed to be easy, and that you can trust the metagame consequences built into the setting to prevent abuse.

The link strongly implies they are using SA-7 passive infrared guided SAMs, probably from an ambush situation with plenty of time to aim at a large, hot target (achieving lock before launch). Which is a far cry from shooting an unguided rocket from the back of a (moving?) truck in the heat of combat, against a man-sized target.

Even with "guided" SR4 missiles, you can't hit a semi-truck sized target. Signal only reduces the scatter by Signal meters and is not cheap to have installed.

Perhaps shadowrunners are not meant to wield the power of missiles, so the rules are intentionally vague and the missiles prohibitively expensive.

Typically, that's why taxpayers foot the bill for these kinds of things.

I don't see why not... With a Missile equipped with an Airburst Link and a Sensor of 6, it will roll 2d6-6 for absolutely no scatter on an average roll, assuming that you got at least one net hit (7-6-1=0 Scatter)... sounds pretty accurate to me... matter of fact, I don't really see how you can actually miss with that setup personally...

It is the unguided Rockets that are more the problem, but can be corrected with the same technology as well... so you pay a few nuyen more for the Airburst package to be added to the Rocket (Your Scatter is now 2d6)... big deal...

The SR4A book explicitly states that you can equip a Missile/Rocket with an Airburst Link (which will reduce scatter to 2d6)... this is on page 325, Left Side, the paragraph just prior to the description of an Anti-Vehicle Missile/Rocket...

Keep the Faith

I really think you guys are just Doing It Wrong™. Grenades are very powerful, and missiles are just crazy. Not that I ever get my hands on them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Heheh... Yeah, Have had a grand total of 1 Rocket/Missile in our game over the last 2 years... Just one...

Grenades, on the other hand, are great... 1d6 -1/Hit Scatter... can't get much better than that... it is a rarity that I actually Miss with a Grenade...

Keep the Faith