One of the really glaring problems is cyberlimbs; I think they should just be averaged like Attributes, which would entail a little numeric rejiggering. Anyway, I wouldn't mess around with 'how much of the FFBA is he wearing?'

I dont get people's problem with FFBA, yeh it allows you to get few points of extra ballistic armor, but that mostly comes at the cost of impact armor.
Thats why i ditched the FFBA on my Sasha i like her 12/12 armor better then something like 15/9, well okey also becouse FFBA doesnt work nicely with the rest of her get-up.

IMO they should just allow all armor to stack, so FFBA would just have the 1/2 for encubrance that makes it special, well they could also add that rule to few other forfitting armors.

Tons of armor does stack.

I second that

Sure you can be clever stacking tons of effects to gain a rather ridiculous armor value but in a nice down to earth game the added security FFBA allows the standard character is invaluable.

On another note (this is off the top of my head, which may be referencing a 3rd ed rule) but you can simply layer FFBA a few times (using its quirky rules) and then add on something useful like the PPP system to increase your Impact.

Something like...

Shirt 0/0
FFBA x4 (6/2)
24/8 (technically 12/4)
Add on some PPP items for a 0/5
and a Hard Hat for 0/2

comes out to 24/15
affects encumbrance like a 12/11 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Which? AFAIK all that stacks are PPP, FFBA, helmets and shields

@Ragewind: Now you are being silly.

@Cyberlimbs: Let's not start that discussion again.

Ur jus Jealous

Armor in the 15-25 range is easy to achieve by taking normal armor that any runner would use. But so what??? It doesnt help at all again stunbolts or fear powers or contact poisins or any number of other attacks. And using dumb things like stacking ffba to prove some point is silly anyway as no sane GM would allow it.

The reason why we are talking about armor is because this is a thread on armor. This is not about defenses against magic, if you want to talk about magic go start another thread.
PS: Not that this really matters but armor can easily defeat poisons with chemical seals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
PSS: Also if you want to create another thread I can show you how to become immune to Force 6 or lower indirect combat spells.
PSSS: Without Mana Static, Arcane Arrester, or Astral Hazing, but that (as I previously said) is a topic for another thread.

Uh I know what the thread is about. Just saying its dumb to do stupid things to prove some point that doesnt seem to be being made anyway and that no matter how dumb you get with it it still doesnt make you as invulnrible as you think it does. If you dont like that oh well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

AH, I'll stop feeding the Troll then.

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A good use of FFBA is combining it with an Evo Hel suit, and some PPP items, this would allow the environmentally friendly Shadowrunner to have copious amounts of every single protection in the game. Without FFBA you would be down some Protections at high rating. Also FFBA is a nice way to get decent armor while not looking like a beefed up thug at a meet (as others have already pointed out). As a final I think the armor gives much needed options, and as any Shadowrunner would say plenty of options is never a bad thing.

Not everyone can wear an armored vest (Requires a Body of 4 if I remember correctly)... FFBA is wearable by everyone (Body 1 Characters can wear the Half Suit with no penalty after all)...

EDIT: Changed Typo to Body instead of Strength... Thanks Shinobi...

Keep the Faith

Dakka Dakka, right, plus any other item besides Military Armor. That's tons.

This is a nitpick body 1.

Anyways. He is probably right, the only reason it exists is too stack with other armor. For me the question is is the stacking armor just power creep or does it make the game more fun and balanced?

That kind of depends on the type of game you want to run, but for me it makes the game more fun and balanced.

Thanks... Meant Body, but my mind had a Brain Fart for some reason... It happens, especially after a long night of Shadowrun...

I tend to use FFBA as an adjunct to the Well Dressed Look... If I wanted real high armor, I go for the obvious stuff, but when the character is out on the town just talking it up, he uses FFBA and a nice suit...

Keep the Faith

The question if and how to scale the oppostion is an entirely other topic, but I guess that most GMs who have issues with FFBA think that it overpowers the player characters.

If there is one thing I don't like about the armor encumbrance is that it uses BOD as the attribute to checkl the encumbrance instead of Strength. I mean, Body is already the attribute you are using to resist damage and in order to use better armor you need better Body? It is a win-win situation. With Strength, at least you force the gunbunnies to put at least 2 or 3 points in strength instead of using it as dumpstat.

Mhm, I've heard that before. Seems fine to me, as a house rule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I know personally it feels like part of the "Shadowrun Arms Race"; where the troll has 40 dice to resist body and the technomancer can "hack the Gibson". To me, runners (especially 400 BP ones) should be powerful, but not the biggest fish in the pond; having to out think the opposition instead of out-roll them is how I interpret the setting. YMMV.

-DrZaius

I tend to flesh out the opposition as realistic as possible - if a group of extremely well-armed and highly professional shadowrunners is going to shoot it out with a small gang that only controls two or three blocks, those gangers will be wiped out easily. No sense in giving them delta-grade cyberware, assault rifles and initiated mages just to increase their threat level and give the player characters a tough fight. Works the other way too: if ill-euqipped shadowrunners try to go after a SWAT team, they face extremely dangerous foes.

Well, there are strength-related encumbrance rules as well.



So, an Armored jacket weights about 12 kilos, clothes and peripheral gear (incl sidearm) weigh around 5 kilos, full FFBA weighs around 8 kilos, and a fully-loaded Ares alpha weighs around 6 kilos. And, now the Gunbunny needs a Str of 3 just to walk around all geared up.

Sure, there's no exact rubric, but if you let your characters get away with having 1 str and carrying what's obviously a full kit, then it's on you.

But… nothing in the game *has* weight stats, I thought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Which is not the same as "nothing in the game has weight".

Vest is a Ballistic 6, so a 3 is fine and 2 lets you wear it with just a 1 point penalty to Agility and Reaction. It's not actually a problem unless you're also trying to Palm gear to get it by completely undetected or are rolling for initiative.

The problem, Tyro, is that it kinda *is* the same.

Not so much, because then the GM must start assing weight to each thing and players might start complaining that "X shouldn't be that heavy", it is the future, we might as well have super resilient-light polymers and stuff".