I think it's important to point out -- and really, I should do so on both this thread and the "We Need More Adept Powers" type of thread a few posts over -- that there are optional rules in place that let you up the power a bit in Adepts. The old method of geasa is still there (multiply the power cost by .75 for any given Adept power? Always been one of the best deals in the game) if your GM allows it, for instance, and it can make a LOT of builds much more reasonable.

Rather than retooling Adepts whole-cloth, I think small "fixes" like that are quite a bit more reasonable, and less likely to outright break the game than whole new abilities (like possession).

Yeah, I use geasa quite often for the cost reduction.
They don't fit for every character though.

I'm not as much a fan, because I don't like people doing things like Talisman ("I can only Traceless Walk while wearing my ninja suit!" ) or doing it at night, then using those on powers that you'd likely only use on the infiltration aspect a run.

There was one that I saw that was a really interesting idea, but was still really cheesy.
Adept Centering : Looking Cool in Shades, or Improved Ability - Pistols - Talisman: Sunglasses , etc
Basically your John Woo styled dual pistols gunslinger in sunglasses. The idea in its self was just so novel that I couldn't help but smile though. I just hate seeing a character keystoned off one item that makes or breaks them (and it being sunglasses).

So you've got a character -- or, really, a player -- that won't take a geasa, that won't take bioware, that won't take cyberware, that won't branch out as a Mystic Adept...and still wants to complain that their character is underpowered?

Options are out there to make a character do what you want a character to be capable of. It's not the game's fault if players won't take advantage of them. If you want to make sacrifices to stay true to a character concept, that's fantastic...but, well, sometimes that means sacrificing instead of just posing.

Thanks Crit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Good thing I can read, that means you won't be condescending to me. Or does it mean I am illiterate if you are condescending to me?

Being condescending is not nice regardless of whom you are victimizing.

I think you may have lumped me in with someone else.
I have no complaints about the relative power level of adepts.

Yeah, it's inevitable that a rule set you can't please everyone all of the time. I really don't envy the devs the job of deciding which thematic elements to stress and how to go about it. Obsolescence applying to human beings is a very cyberpunk notion, after all. In Shadowrun, a 25 year old Samurai could nail a big score and get a full suite of top-of-the-line Alpha 'ware and still find himself falling behind the curve by the time he's 30. That's a freaky concept and it's a fun thing to have as part of the setting in theory, but in practice it's tough to reconcile with the mechanics lest you screw over players. Ideally, it'd also be nice if such things could apply to the Awakened as well, but yet that can easily conflict with a bit of the tech vs. magic feel set in previous books. These things are a rather tough balancing act.

Pfft, geas-limited powers are awesome. Like always, people will try to abuse it. That's where the GM needs to step in and say "no, try something more reasonable." You know, kinda like a mundane character taking Incompetent: Ritual Spellcasting.

I still lament that unless using optional rules, I can't make some of my favorite adepts of old in 4th Edition with the same flair they used to have. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) My drunken boxing guy was so much fun.

I think it should be or at least much more than it currently is. I think it is a core concept of the SR setting.

Sorry, but , you've really got to go with a color other than pepto bismol.

Scrathy *shrug* - Yes, The Geased powers can be cool. Just very easy to get used and abused. I loved the "Looking Cool in Shades" guy that I saw. It was just hard not to shake your head at it.

Like you said, a lot like Incompetent. I think the only time I ever took that was with a Shapeshifter concept I worked on. Lion Shapeshifter with Incompetent: First Aid.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.


What's so weird about it? Stealing his glasses, or him just losing them in the middle of a fight, is easy as pie to work in and if all of his powers rely on them, he's pretty screwed. It's no different than having any other kind of talisman-type geas.

Thank you for a link that required me wait forever for it to load, followed by a long ass commercial*Sarcasm* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As I said, my issue is with one keyed item that makes or breaks everything. Although the concept is great, in practice, it breaks. One of my main problems was with how easy it is to break. Are you really going to tell me that you're going to want to start factoring in knock down and the chance of having your glasses fall off every time you shoot, dodge, fall down , or get nailed by a spell? To properly enforce, it's a huge pain in the ass.

Geas were much, much more abuse-prone in 3rd Edition. With a carefull pickup (and a lax GM) you could cyber-up a mage or adept close to million-nuyen streetsam while retaining the full use of their magic...

You could make him wear a stylish glasses strap.

iI'm so stealing this for my gunslinger adept character, thats just so cool idea.

Like I said: Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! Happy Fun Ball's wrath is swift and merciless and cruel in unconventional ways.


Just like with any other talisman, you can limit it to things like regular glitches, knockdowns (without overemphasizing them anymore than you normally would), and things like that. Even if they just slip off mid-combat, that's a big hindrance as the adept will have to reactivate all of his powers one by one after putting his shades back on. Smart players will also throw their geasa around so that they're not completely crippled by any one act, but as long as they're following a theme and "keeping it real," its just a nice way to add flavor to a character without giving them anymore of an advantage than a street sammy gets for taking alphaware.

And Darhken (sorry, was looking at the wrong post), there's a difference between that use of geasa and the one to reduce Magic loss. That's the one that was a bit broken.

glasses strap =/= stylish. Clearly this should not be allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


With great style comes great responsibility. Don't abuse it.
Try adding in something else with your Stylish Sunglasses, such as Flair Long Coat for Improved Reflexes, Must be dramatically blasting away with both pistols at once in order to get your Improved Pistols.

Added in "Cheesy One Liners" to your Counter Strike and I would allow it.

Social skill boost only give when putting on or removing your glasses.

Pre-CSI Miami true, Post CSI-Miami false.

Dude, now I have to make an adept whose improved unarmed only works when he does this.

If phys ads suck so much, why are 80% of the players at my table using them? They are pretty prevalent on DS as well. and I saw no argument for a better face. which I find unbalanced in the phys ads favor.

Adepts don't dominate socially as much as they did pre-SR4A. With kinesics capped at 3, the dice pools capped out at 20 or natural Attribute + natural skill in modifiers, and so many other ways to boost social skills (glamour, empathy software, tailored pheromones, cosmetic biomods, etc.), you can make a mundane face who is capable of competing with most social adepts.

I'm still not a fan of abritary caps.

Still, the adept face doesn't *lose*; as in almost every field, an adept can compete at chargen and dominate with later karma.