So, assuming you're hidden with an infiltration roll (4 successes), and attack someone with your silenced Ares Predator. The target survives.
Now, do you:
a) Let the attacker use his remaining simple action to re-stealth (another infiltration roll), and the target gets to roll perception on their IP, with the -4 due to silencer, or
b) the attacker can spend his remaining simple action to do whatever he wants, and the target gets to roll perception on their IP, with -4 due to silencer?

Also, are there any other modifiers/rules I should be aware of? Because, from my understanding, it would be way too easy to chip away someones health utilizing a silenced firearm, while remaining stealthed.

I could be really very much wrong but i don't think stealth-ing is like hitting a button in WOW. The guy knows you are there, he was just shot at, and he is pissed. He is going to be looking at the direction he was shot from and doing a perception test with the appropriate mods. I don't think you can hide in plain sight like some other games out there. If you can get out of the area without being noticed i would let you re-roll your infiltration to hide again but it isn't a power it is just you trying not to be seen. Shooting at people doesn't go hand and hand with hiding unless you are a sniper shooting from 300 yards in a gilly suite.

I'd argue b). The victim is likely to either drop prone, seek cover and attempt to locate the source of the gunshot using the general area of the attack. This would probably grant him a positive perception bonus (versus before) of +3 from "Perceiver is actively looking/listening for it".

But it is true that a rather unsuspecting victim without a high perception pool, or particularly useful sensory enhancements (spatial recognizer, audio enhancement, etc) is very unlikely to locate the source of well hidden, suppressed gunfire before it has done them harm. They can still go prone/take cover, call for help, or flee in response, though. They would also, probably, be aware of the general location of the attack.

Edit: I agree with Cang, it's definitely not like an on/off toggle, you need rational for why you're hidden. Also, infiltration implies motion past a perceiver (metahuman or otherwise), disguise is what lets you just lurk in plain sight.

Nope, Disguise is for disguises. Infiltration is hiding and sneaking, which is not to say 'plain sight'.

If you are in plain sight and there is someone capable of perceiving you, then you are "Immediately Noticeable" and by RAW no test is needed to observe you. You have to be hiding in SOME manner in order to receive the benefits of Infiltration.

Disguise does have the 'camouflage' specialization.

Also, from SR4A:
Disguise - When a character wants to take on a false appearance of some kind,
she uses the Disguise skill. This is true whether she wants to look like
someone else or blend into the background.

Infiltration - Infiltration is the skill used when a character wants to sneak around
undetected by either other characters or security sensors.

I use that to mean that hiding while stationary is disguise. Minimizing the impact, perceptively, while moving is infiltration. I am open to reinterpretation, though.

I'd say the person would have to spend the rest of his action to hide again (unless they were a sniper 200+ metres away in a ghillie suit as suggest earlier, they wouldn't need to hide again IMHO), and they would actually have to be hiding in the first place for it to work.
Ie in Shadows (if the target doesnt have relevant technology to bypass that normally) on the second story building across the street, in a dark alleyway under a car ect.

None of this hide in open sight nonsense.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Disguise as in, designing a stationary camouflage, like a duck blind? Now I understand *why* you said 'in plain sight'.

I would argue that this use of Disguise applies only as far as making your camouflage, not, as it were, 'using' it. You could create a ghillie suit appropriate to an environment and get the camo bonus, but the Opposed Perception test of *hiding* is going to be Infiltration, because you're almost inevitably going to be moving. For me. *shrug*

The linked skill of Intuition is what hints at a creative process. Hmm. You could, for example, use Disguise to hide inanimate objects, and I can see how you would apply it to strictly immobile, preplanned hiding (of oneself).

Except the description of Disguise claims it is an opposed test vs. perceivers. I understand when you're trying to look like someone else how this test is used. But, if you're disguising yourself as the woods, how do you decide whether you're using your disguise roll or a new infiltration roll. If you use a new infiltration roll, what does the camo specialization even do?

It is also this disparity, that cause me to use infiltration while a player is moving, and disguise when they are stationary. I argue that the stationary player is making a test to blend into his surroundings, making him harder to notice (i.e. throwing leaves over yourself, lying near a log to break up your figure, etc).

If you're hiding in a preset spot, Disguise could make perfect sense, and the first roll would stand until you moved. It applies to visual perception in cases where the enemy will literally look at your disguised position.

Infiltration covers everything else (that is, everything except hiding in a preset spot). I don't think *just* standing still makes it Disguise, no.

Very true, I'd agree completely. Also, 'just standing still' is a pretty dubious method of hiding, except versus blind people.

Haha, yes.

hi hi

A disguise roll could be used if you were hiding in a crowd, or maybe even a palming roll if you are taking the shot from inside the folds of a long coat, while in a crowd and attempting blend in.

Other than similar situations to those highlighted in examples in the rulebooks, I would agree with you. Disguise is used for creating a false appearance and Infiltration is used to sneak around undetected.

Getting to the spot in the woods undetected would require infiltration. Setting up a hide would be disguise. If the situation at hand is someone hiding behind a wall, peering round the corner and in essense trying to sneak pass someone or something undetected, it doesn't matter if the character is momentarily stationary or freeze for several moments, he is using Infiltration. If the character is hiding in a dumpster and creating a false appearance, it doesn't matter that he scratches his ass, he is using Disguise.

Right.

Kind of surprised no one's mentioned the obvious: if you shot him once and he lived, shoot him again!

The OP did. It was part of the question.

I say neither infiltration nor disguise, after palming the gun you clearly use the con skill while pointing at someone else and screaming, "Holy frag, that guy just shot you!"

That doesn't really work if you were infitrating a corp facility before taking the shot.

Your interpretation is wrong and the book disproves you readily enough.

SR4A, page 133.



As someone pointed out earlier, the use of Intuition with disguise lends it to a craft-oriented skill. Combining bits and pieces from the area around you to craft a blind to hide you from an enemy is a disguise check. Crouching while wearing camouflage is an infiltration check. Standing next to a wall while wearing a chameleon suit is an infiltration check. Assembling a costume to make you look like someone else is a disguise check. Laying in a wilderness environment in a ghillie suit is an infiltration check.

Interestingly, you could potentially use the disguise skill in crafting a ghillie suit to create one that inflicts a penalty larger than -4.

It does with a voice mod and a vocal sample from another guard... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Sure it does, just make sure to dress corp (or as another guard...either way I guess that means you did use disguise as well) and point at either one of your fellow runners or the other security guard near you, bonus dice if the target actually has a gun in hand.

I mean who's the guard gonna believe at that point, you the cute dryad social adept carrying a teddy bear, or McScruffy the troll?

This post has been edited by Fauxknight: Jul 15 2010, 05:27 PM

As for the original question of hiding.

If you shoot someone with a suppressed weapon and they don't die I generally would follow the following process.

1. Target shot must make a perception check, opposed by your infiltration check, to find you. The act of shooting does not innately break stealth or hiding, in my opinion.
2. If the target beats the check, you're no longer hidden to him (and his allies) until you can break line of sight.
3. If you break line of sight, you can make another infiltration check to continue moving around unseen.

This, being hidden and becoming unhidden on attack is a DnD thing. The act of attacking alerts them to your presence, which means they will be looking for you, but it does not automatically give away your location.

Shadowrun also doesn't utilize directional sight or facing when it comes to individuals, so the direction a gunshot comes from doesn't matter. At best it is the catalyst for the +3 bonus for active searching which could be construed as "active searching means you limit your search to an area you know the target is located".