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#1
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 161 Joined: 18-May 08 Member No.: 15,985 ![]() |
Aleksei is a morlock (this is really the only set in stone bit of fluff). He's a brute of a cyclops changeling covered in spikes that can punch his way through anything. He was living in the sewers of Vladivostok for while before the local Vory managed to subdue and capture him for use in pit fights, but word got out about the cargo and the shipment was hijacked. During transportation Aleksei woke up, and tore his way through the plane, and ending up crashing (and miraculously surviving) outside of Denver, where he's been living ever since (their sewers are surprisingly nice).
Cyclops (45 BP) Changeling (10 BP); Bone Spikes, Thermal Sensitivity, Insulating Pelt, Elongated Limbs, and Thorns Adept (5 BP) Martial Arts (20 BP); Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, Karate Gremlins level 4 (+20 BP) Incompetent Negotiation, Etiquette, and Pilot Ground Craft (+15 BP) Strength 10 (40 BP) Body 9 (40 BP) Will 5 (40 BP) Edge 5 (40 BP) Agility 5 (55) Magic 6 (65) Unarmed Combat 6 (24 BP) Specialization Martial Arts (2 BP) Martial Arts Manuever Kicks (2 BP) Athletics 3 (30 BP) Throwing 1 (4 BP) Ghouls Knowledge 1 (2 BP) 45000 nuyen (9 BP); 2 Force 2 Foci, 2 sets of hardliner gloves with personalized grip and customized look (one set are steel toed boots) Adept Powers; Killing Hands (.5) Smashing Blow (1) Improved Ability Unarmed Combat 3 (1.5) Penetrating Strike 3 (.75) Critical Strike 6 (1.5) Elemental Strike; Blast (.5) Attribute Boost 1 Agility (.25) So, Aleksei's punches are devastating (18 attack dice, 19P damage -3 AP), and he can punch through any barrier (double DV against barriers). But they aren't a sure thing. I don't mind him missing every now and then (as I've accepted that I am crippling myself by using a melee character), but Aleksei can punch through a military bunker- one of those hits should be a sure thing against a metahuman. But a good soak pool can take the damage. So, how can I squeeze more damage (or AP) into his unarmed attacks? I looked into Bone Lacing, but it just isn't worth it (Titanium is worth it once I can get it in Deltaware). |
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#2
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 16-November 09 From: United States Member No.: 17,876 ![]() |
More IPs. 3 IPs is 3x more damage than one IP.
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#3
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 446 Joined: 16-May 03 Member No.: 4,598 ![]() |
don't forget elemental strike and penetrating strike do not combine, it's one or the other on that attack.
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#4
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 12-July 10 Member No.: 18,814 ![]() |
So, Aleksei's punches are devastating (18 attack dice, 19P damage -3 AP), Can you break that 19 DV down for me, I don't see all of it. Edit: I think I found it, isn't there a limit of a total of +3 DV for martial arts? I think the newer Arsenal says that, but my PDF is the older one. Also note that bone lacing won't help that much later, if you are attacking with the bone lacing then you aren't attacking with your hardliner gloves becuase neither of those actually add to your unarmed damage, but rather they both replace your base damage. |
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#5
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 161 Joined: 18-May 08 Member No.: 15,985 ![]() |
Can you break that 19 DV down for me, I don't see all of it. Also note that bone lacing won't help that much later, if you are attacking with the bone lacing then you aren't attacking with your hardliner gloves becuase neither of those actually add to your unarmed damage, but rather they both replace your base damage. Sure thing. Strength 10/2=5. Critical Strike 6 Bone Spikes 2 Thorns 1 Muay Thai 1 Karate 1 Kung Fu 1 Tae Kwon Do 1 Hardliner Gloves 1 5+6+3+4+1= 19P. It all stacks. The only thing that doesn't always stack are the martial arts bonuses, but since Aleksei has over 4 Unarmed Combat I get to stack all +4 DV from the Martial Arts (unfortunately Martial Arts is limited to 20 BP). Good point on the bone lacing. Titanium would really only be +2 then, and cost butt loads, and use up 1 full point of magic. The suck. As for more IPs, I'm not really concerned. The character is more entertaining as a lumbering brute. And I didn't have the points to pick up a second IP. Besides, if there is a mage in the party combat never lasts more than one round. |
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#6
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 12-July 10 Member No.: 18,814 ![]() |
It all stacks. The only thing that doesn't always stack are the martial arts bonuses, but since Aleksei has over 4 Unarmed Combat I get to stack all +4 DV from the Martial Arts (unfortunately Martial Arts is limited to 20 BP). This is it, the errata caps it at +3. The rest of it adds up, still I'd check with your GM on some of your stacking to make sure its kosher for his game. |
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#7
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 558 Joined: 23-June 10 Member No.: 18,749 ![]() |
You need to turn this 1-trick pony into a 2-trick pony. Get him to where he can do this kind of damage and soak a lot of damage. 1 IP means you'll be soaking a lot of damage after charging some gunbunnys and punching them. You wont be able to do a lot of full-defense actions or take cover.
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#8
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 29-August 02 Member No.: 3,195 ![]() |
Why this:
Incompetent Negotiation, Etiquette, and Pilot Ground Craft (+15 BP) Just take Uncouth for +20 BP, and then add Pilot Ground Craft for another +5 (if you really want to). Don't know what you'd spend it on, but it's another 5-10 points. |
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#9
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 ![]() |
Because Uncouth is absurdly broken against the player. =P
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#10
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 ![]() |
I don´t think that thorns and bony spikes add up. They are basically the same and only a braindead GM would allow speedballing them both. You can also attack with the spikes OR with the hardliner gloves, by RAW it would possibly add, but if shock gloves and punching don´t fit together, spikes and metal-knuckels don´t make sense either. Besides that it would subtract dices from his dicepool if you take thorns because of the uncomfortability it causes.
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#11
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,190 Joined: 31-May 09 From: London, UK Member No.: 17,229 ![]() |
Am I misreading, or does he have 1 in both REA, INT, CHA and LOG? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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#12
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 ![]() |
And 215 BP's spent on attributes if my math is right. I don't recall - does Edge count in the normal BP maximums, or was that special like Magic/resonance is? I keep forgetting.
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#13
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,190 Joined: 31-May 09 From: London, UK Member No.: 17,229 ![]() |
No, it's special.
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#14
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 ![]() |
All your gear is going to have to be so ultra customized (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . Extra 50% for bone spikes, extra 50% for troll, 10% for limbs, likely a little extra for thorns. That aside, a few potential problems:
First, you can only max one stat at chargen, and you have magic and agility both maxed. Second, how do you come up with 18 attack dice? I only see 15. I suppose you're adding in your reach, but 15 dice and a reach of 3 is different from 18 dice. Oh, improved ability, of course. So, 18 dice and a reach of 3, very nice. Third, There is serious debate on if critical strike can be used with hardliner gloves. I don't want to open that can of worms here, but I'm just warning you that it might come up based on the GM. Fourth, Smashing blow multiplies Base DV, which is technically only the str/2 part, not all the extra bonuses from thorns and such, so that's another thing that might come up based on the GM you're playing under. Fifth and sixth have been addressed with martial arts only being +3 max and elemental strike not stacking. Seventh, no need to spend BP on ghoul knowledge, you get some free knowledge points. That's all I spot off hand. Looks like a really huge bruiser that will bunch tanks to death (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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#15
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 ![]() |
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#16
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 431 Joined: 15-April 10 Member No.: 18,454 ![]() |
As for more IPs, I'm not really concerned. The character is more entertaining as a lumbering brute. And I didn't have the points to pick up a second IP. Besides, if there is a mage in the party combat never lasts more than one round. If you are strickly looking at damage then convert the points spent on improved unarmed over to critical strike. Improved unarmed give you a chance for more damage while Critical strike just gives guaranteed damage if you hit. For extra IP's Synaptic boosters. Rather than Bone Lacing how about Bone Density bioware? and for fluffy reasons, how did the cyclops living in the sewers learn all those martial arts? |
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#17
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 ![]() |
He's already maxed out critical strike, so moving points into that isn't an option.
What else is a 500lb cyclops living in the sewer going to do besides teach himself martial arts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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#18
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 161 Joined: 18-May 08 Member No.: 15,985 ![]() |
Edge doesn't count for attribute max.
"You need to turn this 1-trick pony into a 2-trick pony. Get him to where he can do this kind of damage and soak a lot of damage. 1 IP means you'll be soaking a lot of damage after charging some gunbunnys and punching them. You wont be able to do a lot of full-defense actions or take cover. " Since the Martial Arts is capped at +3 I can put 5 of those BP into Pain Resistance. I can also pick up a shield, some PPP aromor, and a helmet, after a couple runs. His soak is already decent (9 body and 5 Will + 8/6 armor), but yeah, it needs to be better. "Why this: Incompetent Negotiation, Etiquette, and Pilot Ground Craft (+15 BP)" Notoriety. Aleksei is a sewer living morlock, and a huge spikey one that can run through solid plasteel walls. "I don´t think that thorns and bony spikes add up. They are basically the same and only a braindead GM would allow speedballing them both. You can also attack with the spikes OR with the hardliner gloves, by RAW it would possibly add, but if shock gloves and punching don´t fit together, spikes and metal-knuckels don´t make sense either. Besides that it would subtract dices from his dicepool if you take thorns because of the uncomfortability it causes. " I agree it's a little cheesey stacking spikes and thorns, but it is legit, and it makes up for having to be a melee combatant. Spikes and Thorns both say they add DV to the damage value of ANY unarmed attack. Is combat a Physical Test? Just to check I checked the skill section, and stuff like athletics is a Physical Skill. Additionally shields add a -1 penalty to all physical tests, but also specify that the penalty includes attacks. I'm fine if the penalty subtracts from my attacks, I just want to be sure. "Am I misreading, or does he have 1 in both REA, INT, CHA and LOG?" It hurts, but I didn't have the BP to fix it. |
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#19
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 11-October 09 From: Des Moines, IA Member No.: 17,742 ![]() |
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#20
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 ![]() |
Maybe he bumped into the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? He lived in the Vladivostok sewers (which have to be pretty high rated to have someone his size in them, I mean c'mon). Where else are all the old bootleg kung fu optical chips going to be stored? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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#21
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 ![]() |
CODE [quote]Stuff that was said[/quote] QUOTE Is combat a Physical Test? Just to check I checked the skill section, and stuff like athletics is a Physical Skill. Additionally shields add a -1 penalty to all physical tests, but also specify that the penalty includes attacks. I'm fine if the penalty subtracts from my attacks, I just want to be sure. If it says a -1 on Physical tests it doesn't include combat. If it says a -1 on physical tests, it does include combat. QUOTE Since the Martial Arts is capped at +3 I can put 5 of those BP into Pain Resistance. I can also pick up a shield, some PPP aromor, and a helmet, after a couple runs. His soak is already decent (9 body and 5 Will + 8/6 armor), but yeah, it needs to be better. Will doesn't factor into soak tests, though it does give him a bigger stun track. Consider getting FFBA and some really good armor. Slap on that helmet and shield and you should be reasonably well armored. Might want to look at getting dodge (ranged) and perception. Right now your character is virtually blind (DP of -1). |
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#22
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 161 Joined: 18-May 08 Member No.: 15,985 ![]() |
All your gear is going to have to be so ultra customized (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . Extra 50% for bone spikes, extra 50% for troll, 10% for limbs, likely a little extra for thorns. That aside, a few potential problems: First, you can only max one stat at chargen, and you have magic and agility both maxed. Second, how do you come up with 18 attack dice? I only see 15. I suppose you're adding in your reach, but 15 dice and a reach of 3 is different from 18 dice. Oh, improved ability, of course. So, 18 dice and a reach of 3, very nice. Third, There is serious debate on if critical strike can be used with hardliner gloves. I don't want to open that can of worms here, but I'm just warning you that it might come up based on the GM. Fourth, Smashing blow multiplies Base DV, which is technically only the str/2 part, not all the extra bonuses from thorns and such, so that's another thing that might come up based on the GM you're playing under. Fifth and sixth have been addressed with martial arts only being +3 max and elemental strike not stacking. Seventh, no need to spend BP on ghoul knowledge, you get some free knowledge points. That's all I spot off hand. Looks like a really huge bruiser that will bunch tanks to death (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) 1. I forget that Magic counts for that often. I've no problem dropping Agility. Frees up BP for the other stats. 2. 5 Agility (now 4), 6 skill, 2 speciality, 3 Improved ability unarmed, 2 focus, -1 cyclops, 1 personalized grip= 17 dice. 3. Interesting. If the DM thinks it doesn't (which I don't really agree with- it simply states unarmed combat), it doesn't hurt me that much as it just means -2 attack and -1 damage. 4. Do you have definite proof of that? I know base DV does not include hits from the attack roll, but why does it not include the additional bonuses (which work the same as bonuses from ammo, correct?)? 5 and 6. I knew elemental strike and penetrating strike don't stack. I want them both though. Elemental Strike is cool, and awesome against high armor foes, and penetrating strike is good against barriers. 7. Since I only have 6 points of knowledge, and 2 BP left over, I put it on ghoul knowledge. |
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#23
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,679 Joined: 19-September 09 Member No.: 17,652 ![]() |
3. Interesting. If the DM thinks it doesn't (which I don't really agree with- it simply states unarmed combat), it doesn't hurt me that much as it just means -2 attack and -1 damage. I won't argue it one way or the other, but the reasoning for it not stacking is that hardliner gloves are weapons, and thus their use is armed combat, and the fact that they use the unarmed combat skill is simply coincidence. I see both sides of this argument, so I'm not going to tell you to believe one way or the other, I'm just warning you that some GMs will go with the 'don't stack' model.QUOTE 4. Do you have definite proof of that? I know base DV does not include hits from the attack roll, but why does it not include the additional bonuses (which work the same as bonuses from ammo, correct?)? Well, the base DV is str/2, everything else is a bonus that raises the DV, but the base DV would technically stay the same. This is another one of those where there is a fair bit of debate and I see both sides of the argument. If it is only half strength then the power is fairly weak for a full PP, but it also seems weird to include things like thorns. So, not going to argue it here, just warning you of potential views your GM might have.QUOTE 5 and 6. I knew elemental strike and penetrating strike don't stack. I want them both though. Elemental Strike is cool, and awesome against high armor foes, and penetrating strike is good against barriers. 7. Since I only have 6 points of knowledge, and 2 BP left over, I put it on ghoul knowledge. Alright, just wanted to make sure you knew that. The 2 BP could go towards a contact though. Must have a mentor that taught all those martial arts, must have a fixer that gets you work, etc. Some of those could be potential low grade contacts. |
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#24
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 161 Joined: 18-May 08 Member No.: 15,985 ![]() |
Mentor is back in the Motherland, but I do need a contact.
As for the debated things (stacking DV and critical strike with hardliner gloves (which is really needed in order to actually hit things in unarmed combat)), I'm fairly certain my DM is fine with it. Quick question about armor; FFBA Suit is 6/2, and Armored Jacket is 8/6, giving me a 14/8, right? Then a full PPP system and a helmet bumps that to 17/16, and gel packs makes that 18/17? |
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#25
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 12-July 10 Member No.: 18,814 ![]() |
"Am I misreading, or does he have 1 in both REA, INT, CHA and LOG?" It hurts, but I didn't have the BP to fix it. I love how granny can beat him in initiatute, pull out her taser, make a called shot at his nads, and he has to spend edge to even have a chance to get out of the way. |
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