Metaplot might be back, but what quality of metaplot? If it isn't good, it's not worth your money.


In what way? SR1 has just as many quirks as SR4.5. And SR1's much more innovative.


Oddly enough, SR4.5 *is* an inflating HP mechanic, with a few nifty add-ons. Just replace "Damage boxes" with "Hit Points", and you'll see what I mean.

Like many others my introduction was w/ SR1... I kept up with SR2&3 w/ plot stuff but didn't have any oppurtunities to play them. With the launch of 4th... suddenly there were players and others interested again.

I like the older setting, it's grittier and more dystopian. With some of the tracking everywhere... it's a wonder shadowrunners can fit into society at all. (what you have all your RFid's burned out... so you're walking around as a black hole compared to everyone else on the street... etc.)

But ruleswise, I like how much SR4 has cleaned things up... not that it doesn't have a little way to go there.

This is strange, I notice alot of people here mention the 4e rules as better. My group have played SR since early 2nd edition and it was our most played game. When 4th edition came out we hadn't played for a few months and were really excited about the future Shadowrun catching up to the present ( being wireless and all ).

We prepared to play and created characters and I learned the rules and prepared to GM. It all fell flat before we could begin because of the rules, or rather lack of rules. It seemed reading the book that we just needed to wing everything and I felt nothing was explained enough. I don't have the book with me so I can't explain fully what I mean.

I remember though that alot of it had to do with the rigger. Also alot of the time it was like the game was too abstract somehow. They only explained that with this thing you had 3 dice, but not how it worked outside of the mechanics.

Am I the only one that got this feeling from 4th edition?

I'll check my book when I get home and try to explain better what the problem was.

Amen

That is my biggest complaint with SR4. It feels like SR Quickstart Rules in that you have to wing it so much. It simply doesn't feel complete.

Believe it or not but the abstraction was a selling point, especially here on Dumpshock. It is a turn off for me and it's why I don't make a bigger effort to play SR.

Maybe someday someone will make SR5 which takes the best of the previous four editions and combines them into a singular fantastic game.

OK so people here that are saying the 4th edition rules are best, like them for the same reason I found 4ht edition unplayable. I can understand some people like having it open like that but I don't and apperently neither do you.

But I saw someone mention 4.5 was there rules update somewhere?

Today's message is brought to you by... me

As I see it, it is a matter of preference. There are those that like for there to be rules for everything. Then there are those that would sooner wing it rather than have to reference every rule book for every situation to speed up game play. As I get older....I find myself less concerned about the rules and more about the pace of the game.

PS: SR4.5=SR4A=SR Anniversery 4th Edition.

If this is pointed somewhat towards me I just wan't to say that I'm not trying to start a fight. I understand people have different opinion and I was merely stating mine. It might be my lack of english knowledge that makes me sound like some pissed of troll. I was just trying to understand why many other liked the 4e rule while I didn't and if anything had changed since I read them. All in good mood though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)



I love rules but then again tend to wing it when I play. But I often feel there has to be rules on the technical aspects. at least when I don't understand them. I had no idea how to handle sensors on drones, do they have cameras, what about guns. My Rigger player want's to add guns and have them concealed, should I allow that, how does that affect the balance of the game.

Say I allowed him to fit some drone with 4 concealed LMG's and later found out that he did all the work and the street sam never got to shoot anything. I would then have to retract the 4 LMG's and piss off the Rigger.

Guess I'm heading off post here say I'm gonna leave it as it is.

Love the new wireless stuff, don't like the open ended nature of the rules, so 3rd ed is my favorite.

PS: SR4.5=SR4A=SR Anniversery 4th Edition.
Cain is the only one that calls SR4A 4.5 ,Its a kind of Insult ( with the asociation to the Game that everybody here thinks gives Cancer)

HokaHey
Medicineman

I guess this won't increase my popularity here but I liked D&D 3.5 a little bit, it was an ok game.

I haven't played 4th but I've read the rules and I think it's a cool game, probably great, a fantasy board game with RPG elements.

It just isn't a true RPG but people in our society don't tend to have time for a true RPG.

It is a bit at least more than SR2 and 3, but it has way too many save or dies thrown in for my taste. I do like though that goon A has less of a chance to just one shot you, so frequently it works out to an attrition HP system. I don't like that spells, autofire etc. can easily turn into if you are hit you die. IU don't know a system that is perfect for me though and I don't expect any version of SR to be an exception.

I agree with you on all points. Though I am more of a basic-2e D&D fan, 3 and 3.5 had there merits and were fun to play.
4e can be fun but it doesn't seem like a RPG to me, it is like a board game or a tactical miniatures game with some role playing elements tacked on. Sure any group can amp that up all they want, but that is what the rules seem to push towards.

Me Too. I like D&D 3.x and still play it(we'll start a new campaign soon that mixes traditional Fantasy with Starfaring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ) but dislike D&D4 very very much. You're quite right its not a RPG ImO anymore but thats quite another topic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I think every Forum has/needs its quirks and this is one of them

with a quirky Dance
Medicineman

No your not, SR4A is a much better written product and addressed some of the complaints people were having.

Technically, i think i was the first one to call it $R4.5A

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
Is it really important to know who started the insults ?
(I consider that neither funny nor anything to brag about )

with a sad Dance
Medicineman

yeah, knowing who started something is important in my book, sorry.

I'm a 3rd Ed guy, hands down. It basically took all the rules from 1st and 2nd and made them as balanced and easy to play as they ever got. It was easy to create a character at chargen that was awesome, but not overpowerful and with plenty of room to advance. The sourcebooks all added to the game rather than getting obsessed with stuff like devoting an entire page to cyberpenises and fake boobs.

However, my current game is going to be 4a due to the ease of learning the rules since my players are all new to Shadowrun game rules (though one of them has read some of the novels and fluff-based sourcebooks). 4a isn't nearly as bad as I originally thought reading through it the first time when it came out several years ago, but I still prefer 3rd because it feels more nuanced to me.

I didn't have much experience with SR1, beyond buying teh book and reading through it.
SR2 -- I liked the consolidated Firearms skill and how magic in general is handled, including grounding.
SR3 -- I have the most experience with this version and have few complaints.
SR4 -- I really like the fact that Stats are considerably more meaningful in the system as a whole (with the very notable exception of Strength), I really like the idea of AR, I really dislike the omnipresent wired concept (and dislike that RL is heading that way, too). Lastly, I like the fact that Adept powers are no longer mindnumbingly expensive, although that has lead down some very odd paths in terms of min-maxing.

I ran first edition for a few adventures, missed all of second and third edition and got back into it when fourth came out. The only thing I really remember about first was that I couldn't figure out the magic system no matter how many times I read through it and that my friends spent hours upon hours customizing his rigger van so it could go underwater and provide total life support for hours.

I really like fourth and while I've spent a lot of time on dumpshock, learning, reading and sometimes debating, I've found that at my table, there wasn't a whole lot of issue with the rules. Nobody I game with knows much of anything about the fluff, so just hearing Shadowrun and knowing there's magic, fantasy races, cyberware, guns and hacking gets me enough players to run a game.

I did get the anniversary edition, read through it and love the changes, but I've not yet been able to play with a group with the updated ruleset.

So, I'd say that I am a fourth anniversary edition guy, but that doesn't say much as I have zero play or read time on second or third.

I've played some of all 4 editions, though 1st edition was on it's way out when I started playing so 2,3,&4 equally for me. It was interesting watching each edition try to overcompensate fro a problem in the previous edition, usually with a load of unintended consequenses.

That said I like 4th edition Matrix rules over all the others, they are actually playable without a pizza break for all non-decker characters. I liked 2 editions skill system best (3rd just had too many skills) the Skill Web was cool in my opinion. They have yet to get the combat system right in my opinion. Finally I think Magic was best done in Third, but still had problems. Second defintiely had the best Meta-Fluff, third a close second.

Actually, I'm not the only one, nor even the first. See my sig for details. And SR4.5 is just as descriptive, and more accurate, than some of the other abbreviations used. What's more, it's equally valid: everyone instantly knows what I'm talking about.


It's still an inflating HP mechanic, which bothers me in Shadowrun. You really need a Damage Track system to capture the Shadowrun feel.


You might have been. Again, see my sig.

Oh, that reminds me to make house rules for grounding for 4a...

But You're the one who keeps repeating it, the one "carrying the Flag"

No thats Wrong and You should know that.
the official abr. is 4A
Its not equally valid and its by far not accurate
Its insulting (as I've already posted) and THATS what everybody instantly knows
and yes everybody who's read some of your posts knows what Point of View you have
(and yes,I know that I'm jousting Windmills, but I have to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )



He who dances in front of Giant Windmills
Medicineman