Red Samurai, professional rating 5 - 12 dice to shoot things.
Tir Ghost, professional rating 6 - 12 dice for infiltration.

Heck, even the "High Stakes Negotiator" from RC, who's basically described as one of the absolute best of the best, tops out at 17 dice for Negotiation (bargaining).

If a DP of 12 isn't good enough to get the job done most of the time then the problem is probably that the GM has had to scale things up due to rampant min-maxing.

And yet one guy with nice contacts and an attention coprocessor can spot them on a clear day with a base pool of 6. All I'm saying here is that pools are highly variable and there's usually a better way of boosting one than paying 4 bp for 2 dice, which is exactly what avoiding a default is.

How many dice you need to roll for a skill varies from table to table. Keep in mind that magic, combat, and social skills are easy to boost, but also face a lot of potential negative modifiers. 12 dice with a pistol might be good enough most of the time, but what about when you are moderately wounded, with poor visibility, firing at someone crouched behind partial cover?

Also keep in mind that generally, you want a nice healthy margin of dice over your enemies, who generally will tend to be unwounded, on their own turf, and outnumbering you. Even with a nice margin (20 dice vs. 12, for example), you can still expect the dice to surprise you - a lot.

But different groups face different types of opposition. If you are playing in a group of gang punks or newbie runners, you probably won't need 20 dice against the other gangers and similarly weak enemies you will face. Party composition also plays a role, though. If you are the only combat guy (or face guy), you might want to be a bit more buffed up.

Finally, you should look at it from a metagame point of view. If the GM always has his missions turn into a firefight at some point, no matter what precautions you take, then there isn't much point in wasting a lot on stealth skills, beyond the bare essentials. On the other hand, if the game is mostly talking, and guns are rarely drawn, then a pistols skill of 10 might be plenty. And you want to keep your power at a level that doesn't make the GM threatened or uncomfortable. If 16 dice can get you by most of the time, but 20 dice leads to SWAT teams showing up out of the blue, then get the 16 dice and shore up a few weak areas.

Don't forget that Defaulting is super-lame. It's total metagaming to say, 'oh, no worries, my stat is high enough even though I obviously should have some training in this'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

6 dice = "I think I can"

Oh, holy crap. That's not right.

-Tir.

Why not?
6 dice means that you have decent odds of failing a TN 1 roll.
You have a 50% chance of failing a TN 2 roll.

6 dice is pretty much, I can do basic things, but if I can't buy my 1 success then my chances of failing are non-trivial.
I wouldn't want to risk my life on a 6 dice pool in SR.

Does that apply to vision enhancements and a smartgun link?

As for obviously illegal, that can be gotten around for the most part, but I think all wired reflexes and synaptic accelerators are R if not F. I don't have my book with me. For me, one of those two is a must have if you're a non-mage. Even if it's only a single extra IP.

I've looked at the cyberlimb stuff, including Augmentation, and maybe I don't understand it but they don't seem that good. Kind of expensive for limited gain.

It applies triple to vision and audio gear. Just get contacts or goggles, and earbuds. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Get 3 pairs if you're worried about losing them.
I agree 1000%. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) People at first see that they can implant a machine gun or bottle opener or kitchen sink, and they don't stop until someone says, '… why?'. Hehe.

6 dice is a attribute 3 skill 3 character with no tools in a world of tools. One can get 6 dice with a level 3 agent and level 3 software running on a level 3 commlink. It's a level 6 first aid kit in the hands of a child. It's the perception rating of a LEBD-1 or a Doberman or a Stormcloud.

It's a greater than 1/12 chance of failing a TR1 test.

Edit: A 6 in Missions means you can't buy avail: 4 gear between missions on your own. You need someone else to buy it for you.

It's true that you can forget the tools. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) +3 Perception is easy to get, +2 firearms, that crazy medkit (or emotitoy)…

I prefer cybereyes and cyberears to goggles and earbuds any day. Both goggles and earbuds will have to be wireless unless you have them modded for skinlink, and even then they're pretty obvious looking. You will never lose or forget your cybereyes/ears, and there are more modifications for them than goggles. Cybereyes and cyberears are DNI, can be hardwired, and have more capacity. You usually can't tell them from the real thing unless there is obvious cyber for cosmetic reasons going on. You'll never forget them at home. When you wake up in the middle of the night with the mob banging on your door, you'll be glad you got those implants.

Never bothered with an implanted gun though. So inefficient. =P

No reason that earbuds are obvious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Still, there's almost nothing that you can't get in the non-cyber versions. They have more capacity because they *need* more. Personally, I never lose or 'forget' my gear, thankyouverymuch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehe.

You're spending less money, no Essence, and getting at least the same effect; no brainer. If you have trodes (of course you have trodes), then they're just as much DNI, and it's easy to skinlink. Besides, you don't have to get goggles. You can have contacts, and/or glasses, whatever.

Unless you're a mage or an adept, or don't want that crap in your temple. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Besides, not many people are going to forget their earbuds or glasses when they're needed for so much with the commlinks.

I use Contacts with flare comp, smart gun, and image link, and I use glasses with lowlight, thermal, image mag, image enhance 3

What everyone needs:

Skills:
Athletics
Influence
Infiltration
Perception
Dodge (if Gymnastics Dodge is not allowed)

Items:
1 good Comlink
2-3 disposable ones
High rating Analyze and Browse software
1-2 good Fake SINs
2-3 disposable Fake SINS
Modded Glasses & Earbuds
Form-fitting Body Armor (if allowed)
Emotitoy R6 (if allowed)
3 Sets of Armor: one for "blending-in" jobs (Actioneer Suit/Armor Vest), one for normal jobs (Chameleon Suit/Camosuit), one for "nobody cares about the bodycount" jobs (the heaviest you can wear and get your hands on... usually that's Full-Body armor, but light-milspec is the ideal)
endoscope
gasmask
2-3 (thermal) smoke grenades
1 obvious weapon, e.g. an Ares Predator, especially if you're a non-gunfighter. In a world where "Geek the mage first" is common, not carrying a gun pretty much marks you as a mage/technomancer whatever.

For Sammies:
Low-profile weapon (anything silent and concealable works)

For mages:
Magesight googles

and after you buy all that stuff you basically have 0 points left over to actually make your character (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Should every runner have that stuff eventually? yes.. but you can't get 1-2 good sins and 3-4 disposables, a bunch of different commlinks, etc.. at char gen. A lot of that stuff can and should be picked up 'in game'

You can pick up disposable commlinks for about 100 nY each.
A R4 fake SIN, one R2 and one R1 will cost you a grand total of 1.4BP at chargen.

I look at that list and I keep wondering "Why?"

I don't think I have a character that has all of those things. My current character doesn't have half of them. Some of them don't even make sense for my character to have at this point in time. Maybe as a list of "someone on the team should have these". I can sort of see that.

I'm on a budget. This is what I typically take, depending on what I'm running



There.

Honestly I think that's a pretty good list. You want to not have to default on things like running, climbing and talking, so influence 1 and athletics 1 are something my characters always have. Infiltration isn't always necessary though, and I always wear the heaviest armor possible, I just conceal it well.

You always want some sort of image and sound link so you can communicate with your team. And it's so cheap honestly, it'd be dumb not to. Everybody should have perception to pick out obvious things, as well as dodge to keep from getting shot. Dodge: Worth every point

Gasmasks are useful because combat chems are useful. If you use combat chems at all, you should have a gasmask. Endoscopes are meh, since smartlinks do the same thing.

Interesting!

I played the heck out of 2nd Edition and implanted cybereyes and bottle openers through all that time. Of course, I don't think goggles were as good back then. There were certainly no contact lenses.

How about the illegal stuff; IP boosters primarily? How do you get avoid the illegality of that and stay competitive in a firefight?

And what am I missing with cyberlimbs that make them good? I mean sure, you can put equipment in them but by the above argument I can just put that same equipment in my pocket.

For IP boosters, have one of your SINs with an ex-security background and a fake license to go with it. Any piece of R gear should have a fake license associated with it.

Cyberlimbs good largely because of the extra physical track boxes they add as well as all of the nifty things you can put in them. You can upgrade the stats of it, add armor, put things like internal air tanks, undroppable blades, ultrasound sensors, smuggling compartments, and even turn your hand into a grapple gun (Try putting that one in your pocket).

Ok, maybe I was a bit unclear. My list isn't exclusively about chargen (heck, I'm mentioning milspec armor), but rather, about what most runners will need in order to succeed with a GM that does not necessarily have "the world will accomodate you" mindset. And seriously, the total cost is like, less than 40k (heavy armor not included), and it's hardly set in stone.

As for playing without Influence, ymmv. Remember, you defend against social skills with Attribute+social skill, and often, you won't have a Face to do the talking, especially if the NPC is specifically talking to your character. Besides, it's nice to be able to acquire your equipment without relying on your fixer and paying him like 20% royalties.

Basically, ask yourself these question:
1) Can my character survive in a high-combat situation?
2) Can my character walk around in high-security zone (A or better) without immediately drawing suspicion?
3) Can my character contribute to the team outside of his specialty?
4) Can my character get past a bouncer in a nightclub?
5) When stripped of all illegal gear, is my character still playable?

If you answered "No" to more than one of these questions, then maybe you should get back to the drafting board.

A good set of Alphaware wired reflexes turned off with a trigger are pretty good at fooling the detectors. In theory, they should be almost impossible to spot when turned off by all but the most sophisticated of scanners. Can't remember if/what the modifier is in 4e but it was pretty substantial in the earlier editions.

As cool as the rules are for them/cheap they are, I can't imagine too many reasonable people willing to use any of the non-triggered, "always on" reflex enhancers like synaptic accelerators and boosted reflexes.

Someone made a good point: in previous editions, cyber versions of things (like eyes) *were* often better (Smartlink?) or simply the only version available (UWB radar sensor before Arsenal came out?).

I wouldn't say that cyberlimbs are good, but *a* cyberlimb (or just a hand) can be good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's a place for your nanohive and other little widgets.