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Yerameyahu
post Sep 17 2010, 03:31 AM
Post #126


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I daresay *prohibitively* higher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Mwa ha ha.
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phlapjack77
post Sep 17 2010, 03:35 AM
Post #127


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This line is bugging me, now:

Dosages for toxins vary considerably from substance to substance, and prices and descriptions given are for a standard dose effective against most metahuman physiology.

MOST metahuman physiology? Let a bit of wiggle room, there? What metahuman physiology are they leaving out?
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 17 2010, 03:38 AM
Post #128


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Body 20 Trolls, Body 1 Humans, etc. Out of combat, you'd obviously tailor the dose to the person.
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phlapjack77
post Sep 17 2010, 03:47 AM
Post #129


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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 17 2010, 11:38 AM) *
Body 20 Trolls, Body 1 Humans, etc. Out of combat, you'd obviously tailor the dose to the person.

And thus a new skill, Anesthesiologist, was born (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 17 2010, 03:50 AM
Post #130


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I think that's Artisan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just kidding, it's a knowledge skill. Don't need it though, because you can just google their mass/etc. Yay, Matrix.
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Mordinvan
post Sep 17 2010, 05:28 AM
Post #131


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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 16 2010, 08:22 PM) *
Does DMSO say it goes through vehicle armor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Two can play at the 'there's no rule!' game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Doesn't have too. Aerosol the compound in question, and add DMSO. If the car has an air intake, it will get in.
Also there is nothing special about vehicle armor that I'm aware of which allow it to ignore the penetration effects of noxious agents.
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Neraph
post Sep 17 2010, 05:30 AM
Post #132


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What have I wrought...

Or rather, what have the game designers wrought that I have brought to light?
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Faraday
post Sep 17 2010, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Sep 16 2010, 10:28 PM) *
Doesn't have too. Aerosol the compound in question, and add DMSO. If the car has an air intake, it will get in.
Also there is nothing special about vehicle armor that I'm aware of which allow it to ignore the penetration effects of noxious agents.

This is what life support and enviroseal are for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mordinvan
post Sep 17 2010, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE (Faraday @ Sep 17 2010, 02:10 AM) *
This is what life support and enviroseal are for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yes but do those systems say they protect the passengers or the car?
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Badmoodguy88
post Sep 17 2010, 12:53 PM
Post #135


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QUOTE
Free Spirit Health
Spirits are creatures of mana and have no real bodies to
speak of. They can still become hurt and suffer the same dice pool
modifiers for Stun or Physical damage that their metahuman
counterparts do. Spirits also heal at the same rate as metahumans
(p. 242, SR4). A spirit with a full Physical or Stun Condition
Monitor is disrupted.
Spirits that are disrupted, whether it be by damage, being
forced through an astral barrier, or some other cause, are compelled
to return to their native metaplane. If the spirit is disrupted
by a cause other than damage, its Physical Condition Monitor is
filled. The spirit may not return to Earth until it has completely
healed, again using the same rules as metahumans. Additionally,
unless the spirit has an active Friendship Pact, the spirit may not
return for a number of days equal to 28 minus its Force.
If a spirit takes enough damage to overflow its Physical
Condition Monitor by more than its Willpower attribute, its Force
is reduced by 1 when it returns to its home metaplane. Its natural
maximum attributes are also reduced, which may cause the reduction
of one or more attribute ratings. If a spirit’s Edge is reduced, it
also loses at least one Power Point worth of critter powers.
First aid and medicine and medicine do not work on spirits,
although they may work on a possessed vessel. Any healing
or repair given to a vessel applies only to that vessel’s Condition
Monitor, and not to the spirit’s. Free spirits may not use cyberware,
bioware, nanoware, transgenics, drugs, or anything else that
requires an organic body.

So if a spirit is possessing a vessel that is not immune to poisons and can use drugs, then the spirit can be hurt by poison and use drugs, but if it is a materialization spirit or in a body that is not hurt by poison, such as plasteel or dead wood, then it can't use drugs or be hurt by poison.
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 17 2010, 01:18 PM
Post #136


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Mordinvan, that's not a very good solution. Aerosol is not the most useful vector. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yay, Badmoodguy88! 'Problem' solved. Now do it for vehicles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In other news, I can't decide if I'm glad or depressed that the writers knew their players were so stupid that they'd try using First Aid or getting 'ware on a Free Spirit PC. :/
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Karoline
post Sep 17 2010, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 17 2010, 08:18 AM) *
In other news, I can't decide if I'm glad or depressed that the writers knew their players were so stupid that they'd try using First Aid or getting 'ware on a Free Spirit PC. :/

Foresight, because some spirits can materialize to look human, so the basic reasoning is that if it looks human and acts human then it should be able to accept first aid and ware like a human. They mention in fluff that a spirit, regardless of looking like it is made of X, is actually not, so they just added this as crunch to reinforce that, which is good, because I've seen plenty of people that forget that a spirit isn't actually made of X.

Edit: oh, and no, the spirit can't be hurt by poison while it is possessing, but the body it is inhabiting can be hurt. The two tracks are separate, though the most common form of damage (bullets and blades) hurts both, so people sometimes forget that it isn't just 'what happens to one happens to the other.'
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 17 2010, 01:30 PM
Post #138


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Like I said, "the writers knew their players were so stupid that they'd try". :/
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Irion
post Sep 17 2010, 09:04 PM
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@Karoline
QUOTE
They mention in fluff that a spirit, regardless of looking like it is made of X, is actually not, so they just added this as crunch to reinforce that, which is good, because I've seen plenty of people that forget that a spirit isn't actually made of X.

Well, I guess they should have reinforced it a bit more. A manifesting spirit should not be able to work as an Toster. (Or at least should have to defend against the damage caused by electricity.)
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X-Kalibur
post Sep 17 2010, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Sep 16 2010, 08:35 PM) *
This line is bugging me, now:

Dosages for toxins vary considerably from substance to substance, and prices and descriptions given are for a standard dose effective against most metahuman physiology.

MOST metahuman physiology? Let a bit of wiggle room, there? What metahuman physiology are they leaving out?


People can also have the immunity quality.
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 18 2010, 03:12 AM
Post #141


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Irion: unless it has Realistic Form (Toaster). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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suoq
post Sep 18 2010, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 17 2010, 09:12 PM) *
Irion: unless it has Realistic Form (Talkie Toaster). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Fixed.

I really need to write up a possession spirit inhabiting a chicken vindaloo...
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Irion
post Sep 18 2010, 01:14 PM
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Well, realistic Form and mutable form are about one power point for a free spirit.
And transforming into a car with a lasercannon on top is just silly.

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Karoline
post Sep 18 2010, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Irion @ Sep 17 2010, 04:04 PM) *
@Karoline

Well, I guess they should have reinforced it a bit more. A manifesting spirit should not be able to work as an Toster. (Or at least should have to defend against the damage caused by electricity.)

Correct, it has 0 ability to act as a toaster. The spirit has no metal coils to pass the electricity through to heat up to toast anything.

It could certainly look like a toaster, and if it was a fire spirit it could maybe use its energy aura to toast the bread, but a spirit could never actually operate like a toaster.
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 18 2010, 04:17 PM
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Again, unless with Realistic Form. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Neraph
post Sep 18 2010, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Badmoodguy88 @ Sep 17 2010, 06:53 AM) *
So if a spirit is possessing a vessel that is not immune to poisons and can use drugs, then the spirit can be hurt by poison and use drugs, but if it is a materialization spirit or in a body that is not hurt by poison, such as plasteel or dead wood, then it can't use drugs or be hurt by poison.

How do you figure that "no first aid" means "no drugs or toxins?" First Aid, Toxins, and Drugs are three separate things in the rules.
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Irion
post Sep 18 2010, 04:44 PM
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@Yerameyahu
And thats the annoying part.

Spirits should not be affected by drugs, most toxins etc.
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Irion
post Sep 18 2010, 04:44 PM
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@Yerameyahu
And thats the annoying part.

Spirits should not be affected by drugs, most toxins etc.
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 18 2010, 04:45 PM
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I assumed he meant this part: "Free spirits may not use cyberware, bioware, nanoware, transgenics, drugs, or anything else that requires an organic body."

Irion, I just meant that it could act as a toaster (toast bread). The power doesn't necessarily imply that a Realistic Form of something living would be affected by drugs/toxins: "A spirit that appears as a metahuman would have a heartbeat and a regular breathing rate."

Note that this is simply the appearance, "A spirit that appeared as an object mimics the object’s normal functionality […]". It's vague as to whether 'mimics normal functionality' means 'is affected by drugs/toxins', or if it simply means that it pretends to breath and 'pretends' to have a pulse, see?

Try to ignore Neraph, he always takes the anti-common-sense position. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's not a character flaw, it's an intellectual exercise.
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Whipstitch
post Sep 18 2010, 04:48 PM
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Yeah, it does rather plainly say that Free Spirits cannot use "transgenics, drugs or anything that requires an organic body." But with that said, I'm not terribly sure whether that should be considered to include toxins, given the existence of things like pesticide allergies (although admittedly bug spirits are essentially inhabitation spirits) and toxic paranormal powers like Noxious Breath or Anaphylaxis. Further, they seem to largely be talking about things that would be beneficial to the spirit if they worked. So while I think it would make a certain amount of sense if Spirits are outright immune to most toxins, I could see how the devs may have refrained from going that far in order to leave open the possibility of anti-spirit Awakened toxins or spirit-on-spirit poisoning attacks. Thematically though I agree with the people that think it'd make sense if narcoject wasn't terribly effective against air spirits, but then, I'm not the one making the rules.
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