the only downside is you can get jumped from the astral b/c of an active spell, but depending on your class its not that a big a deal.

That could happen from Armor too? Or not. Targeting physical characters from Astral is a real gray area for me. (I thought you had to be Astrally Perceiving to be spelled by an Astrally Projecting caster.)

@sabs
Well, this would be 2-4 if you are looking at a mage, so it is not a big deal.

@Neurosis

Well, first aid heals stun first! Thats quite important and the reasons it is such a good thing to play a mage/medic. Because stun is not a problem, because it is gone afte a couple hours. But physical must be healed if you do not want to rest several days.

Anything that is magically active (Active foci, sustained or Quickened spells) are a viable target for boring through as memory serves.
It just means that if your not magic stick to the activation items only.

Actually you are incorrect.

Or more specifically your brain is reminding you of SR2-3 rules that no longer apply to SR4.

Pageref?

Oh really? Thats cool, life just got way safer then. Is that a page reference for that?

not exactly.
They just never ever mention being able to target someone through a foci.
They are very specific on how you target someone with spells from the astral.

SR4A p183


Nowhere does it say in the foci rules that they can be used to target someone.
They are mentioned as having an astral form and can be taken on an astral journey if they are activated, but really that's it.

I certainly don't see anything about it in 4A. Which is pretty convincing.

Though you CAN target a Foci directly with a spell. I'm not sure what that does to the magician.

I guess it will come to down to GM interpretation of Astral Form. I know where my GM is gonna go. But i hope others are more merciful.

Neurosis, I'm the only one giving good faith here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Increase Body, as I've repeatedly said, is good. It is not categorically superior to Armor.

To me, the Armor spell is bad, and not for any numbers reason.

It puts a great big glowing "I'M A MAGE" sign on your back.





-karma

Oh come now, Kill the one the dress is SOP. We all love it.

I much prefer a high force Combat Sense spell, m'self.

Being able to chuck handfuls of dice to not get hit in the first place is nice.

And it doesn't have a visible component.



-karma

"Geek the mage!!!"



If you wish to argue this, account for the 4:1 advantages ratio I presented at the end of the last page.



Increase Reaction does the same thing and more for less drain and is just as invisible.

Unless you're much better at Detection than Health, which you might be. Or your Reaction is high, but you (quite understandably) want even more protection. Again, it depends. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Why does everything have to be a blanket categorical statement? Try this: 'Increase Reaction is a better choice in many cases.' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The primary difference in Drain between Armor and Increase Body comes from Armor being LOS. Learn a T version of Armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Something that is better in most cases is better. It is not 'ALWAYS BETTER' but we may safely say that it is just plain 'better'. You would have to come up with some obscure, special cases (like being so much better at Detection than spell that it offsets the difference between Drain (F/2) - 2 and Drain (F/2) + 2) to come up with situations where the 'Increase' spells AREN'T better. For day-to-day use, assuming no mitigating situational factors, 'Increase Body' IS categorically better than armor.

This is true of Increase Reaction when compared to Combat Sense and of Increase Body when compared to Armor.

In other news, still want to see a PageRef about First Aid healing Stun.

Well, there's also the whole "no augmented cap" for combat sense and armor.

That is the first undeniably valid argument against my point I have seen, Mooncrow, and you did it one post.

*golfclap*

SR4A - page 252

Many, not necessarily most. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't want to get off on a personal invective, but is it necessary for you to include one or more smiley faces to punctuate each sentence, Yerameyahu? I am not sure what the intended effect is, but I think it might be having the opposite effect.

@Mooncrow: Thankee. Is this a change since SR4 or has it always been this way?

Hmm. It has always been this way. Fairly vast oversight on my part but doesn't actually effect my argument all that much.

First Aid could heal stun in SR4 as well.

You insult me, sir. I never use more than one per sentence, and it's hardly my fault if smiling annoys you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)