I think snowcrash still screams SR achent "magic" ott guns/plot same kind of feel. Also has a nice matrix like area in the books. Its not quite SR4 or 3 as it lacks races and magic it is however a good read and has some mood setting points.

The part that bothers me the most about the console game is the simple fact that the license really could support a good FPS spin off quite easily if you just based things off an expanded and modified Urban Brawl-- it would have been easy to incorporate other game modes as try outs and practices between "real" matches, too. I doubt it would have been a tough sell given that the tournament conceit is hardly a new idea in FPSes either. That baby could have been like Unreal Tournament crossed with Smash TV's demented game show atmosphere. Sure, it wouldn't have been very representative of a Shadowrun session, but who here wouldn't smile a li'l bit at the idea of an Urban Brawl game where you can welcome Bubba the Love Troll to the Seattle Screamers franchise as the team's new Blaster in between Robocop style Ares Arms commercials?

Yeah as urban brawl is just CTF but with a motorbike thrown in. An unrban brawl league game would have to play on the races and magic angle a lot to not look like a UT clone but would have been cool. I'm thinking brink type movement and an array of spells and such plus adept powers and cyber/bio. I liek that idea alot hell I might work on a brink mod if i can.

Yeah, and a Shadowrun: Urban Brawl game wouldn't have to make up excuses and alternate histories to explain the background. It's already built right into the Urban Brawl concept, with arenas, leagues, leaderboards, playoffs, etc.




-k

HAAAHAHAH you're kinda right! I didn't even really think of that! As for the cyberpunk theme, you have a good point. SR4 has evolved quite a bit, reflecting more on the advance of todays tech as opposed to yesterdays', if you catch my meaning.

Actually, technology kinda went backwards. SR4.5 Matrix technology, except for full VR, isn't really that much more advanced than what we can do today. The original Matrix was based on technology that was pure sci-fi.

Probably still does...but no matter how much he hates his illegitimate offspring, the relationship remains (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

From the overall "dystopia with megacorps" concept to individual elements like riggers and cybered street sams, the classic cyberpunk canon established a lot of stuff Shadowrun picked up.

You're confusing Urban Brawl with Combat Biking.

Urban Brawl is a mix of Capture the Flag and Kill the Carrier, with some vague American Football feel to it.

Combat Biking, I'm not actually sure what it is.. other than guys with bike and guns trying to kill each other.

and I would've liked Rollerball in SR...but,Guys, aren't we whay Offtopic ?

with a Dance back to Topic
Medicineman

Combat Biking = Rollerball on motorcycles + scripting of the WWE.

And yeah, we totally are offtopic. But what else is new? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Nah, the only way he could have been more accurate is if he had said "with two motorbikes thrown in." Both teams have an "outrider" position, and that player that gets to ride a motorcycle w/ a weapon mount. They can carry one other person on the bike but neither the rider or current passenger may be ball carriers.

I apologize; I misread the post. UB does have a pair of bikes. Combat Biking is nothing but bikes.

And drama.

And presumably body bags.

Presumably. Amusingly, I found a lot of similarities between Dead Air, I believe it was called, and the recent Rollerball movie.

That or do a game set in Desert Wars.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. P&P in person and in play by post are fundamentally different, and offer different rewards, but there are things that can't be had easily in either:

So, if you want:

excellent roleplaying, getting deeply into the head of your character, a fleshed out game world and very immersive, but SLOW play, you have to start: PLAY BY POST. But be prepared that you will be playing for YEARS, and not much will happen in that time.

If you want all of the above, minus the fleshed out gameworld and the slowness, then you have to try: LARP. Just stay away from public places, or else the cops might shoot you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

If you want to have a lot of fun with prospective buddies, mostly talking trash, lots of jokes, farts and bad breath, and guzzle beer while doing so, then chances are you're playing P&P at the table. Most probably this also incluces poor roleplaying on everyone's part, a guy who keeps interrupting you and stealing your spotlight, a PC who can do everything better than you, a PC who can't do anything at all and the accompanying player who keeps whining about it, lots of rules dicussions, lots or rules uncertainties, handwaves, time spent rolling and counting dice, etc. etc. (You can tell I'm at least slightly damaged (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

Now VERY VERY RARELY will you find groups where the strong points of number one and two - excellent, deep roleplaying and an immersive game world come together at the table, but be warned. People will tell you about such things, but they are HARD to find, or you need LUCK. You are most likely to find noisy players who can't hold a thought for a few minutes, a poor GM who is any or several of the following: egomaniac, control freak, favoritist, unfair, a bad narrator, no narrator at all, a railroader, a deprotagoniser, a PC gimper or limiter, or someone with a god complex. Well, that last one includes some of the former.

Good GMs do at least several of the following well: the can narrate or at least read from a pre-prepared script atmospherically. They can describe scenes. They can build convincing scenarios within the rules of the game, which are solvable using several paths. (in fact, the best scenario design involvoes not thinking about the solution at all.) They are enablers and challengers. They work with the players to create a PC centered game. They know how to frame scenes and give spotlight. They know how to challenge but not frustrate. They allow transparent cooperation in rules questions and listen to group consensus. They can separate the PLAYER from the PC. And probably a few other things I am forgetting.

The final point is also very important for the other players - and for you. If you can't stop seeing the fat pimply guy sitting opposite you at the table, then roleplaying will be pretty hard. This is really one of the main advantages of Play by Post. You can BE your character on a message board.

When talking to people about joining their groups, try to get their stances on the following topics, at best without being confrontative about it:

- powergaming: many people will tell you that building strong characters will equal poor roleplaying. AVOID. However, consciously abusing rule weaknesses might turn out unfair for your fellow PLAYERS (not anyone else), if they don't use the same exploits.
- munchkinism: different word, same thing with just slightly different nuances; a munchkin is more a player control freak, while a powergamer is a rules-abuser. trust me these first two topics will come up on their own, usually. In their bad forms both are obnoxious, but often wrongly applied.
- (practical) optimisation: the idea of mechanically optimising a character while staying within the rules, or using common sense interpretations where the rules are unclear; make sure the GM understands that mechanics and roleplaying are fundamentall different. Even character built by abusing rule weaknesses can be roleplayed excellently. Vice versa goes without saying.
- Mechanics and roleplaying: Good mechanics support roleplaying, a lot of mechancis sort of create a void where roleplaying must be done between resolving situations via rolling. SR isn't very supportive in its mechanics, while it still keeps demanding roleplaying in the rulebooks. A SR character, for instance, has no "fluff" traits on his sheet bar a few qualities. this is symptomatic of most older systems that evolved slowly from the dungeoncrawling age while sticking to core principles.
- house rules: Make sure that the GM is up front and transparent with houserules. Stay away from GMs who keep making shit up on the fly - usually shit that will gimp your character. Some will create extensive collections of house rules, make sure to read and respect them.
- GM position: The GM is NOT god. The GM is a player, who, admittedly, has a teeny bit more work than the rest of the players. Support him by giving praise where appropriate. Don't stick with people who are dicks about their position.
- game balance. There is no such thing in a non-competitive game. Don't let anyone fool you. GROUP balance is the important thing to watch out for, and it can be done without, as long as people understand spotlight!
- spotlight. Make sure players and the GM understand it, and you don't have people in the group who just can't keep their mouths shut.
- campaign style: make sure everyone is on the same page as to what you are playing. Whether it's a maximum stealth campaign or a guns blazing, so called Pink Mohawk, campaign. It's all good, as long as everyone is playing the same game.

Try to find out what expectations the group/the GM/the other players have about the game, and about each other. Of coure, they will all cut you some slack for being a newbie. Most probably they will offer to help you.



Ok, and now that you've read all this, forget about it for now, and just find a group. When you've found one, play with them for a bit, and then come back and maybe read it again, and think about whether you are happy there.


Now, as for finding some PbPs:

Look for groups that demand immersive writing style, correct english, and full character backgrounds with prose descriptions. There are others, where posts mostly consist of a half-complete sentence and maybe a roll. Avoid. There are also some where EVERY post is basically a novel (without wanting to be sexist, it's a bit of a female-roleplayer trait). While that gives you a lot to do and to read, it can get annoying, especially when it gets hard to find the relevant information within the text, and also when people are TOO preoccupied with their characters, their angst and motivations. So... a balance is best.

Finally, if you've managed to survive the definite confirmed crit by wall-of-text, and shoddy use of colors: Good luck.

The fact that you know any Pen&Paper gamers at all is a definite start - ask around if any of these D&D players would be interested in Shadowrun, or if they know of anyone who would be able to run a game. Failing that, see if they'll let you play D&D with them for a while and see if you actually like playing RPGs at all.

I'd buy at least the core-rulebook - read through it and see if the setting and rules make sense to you.