Getting Drunk, 10 beers in 2 hrs? Still sober for the gun fight! Options

[DocTaotsu]

What's a reasonable DV for a beer? I don't want to be a totally rules weenie but I would like the option so my 2-3 body players can't pound 10 beers and be "good" for the gun fight in the alley way. I also want to be able to model an reasonably entertaining "So a troll and a dwarf get into a drinking game..."

[Critias]

Base stun DV 0, +1 DV (cumulative) for each drink (be it a beer, a shot, a glass of wine, whatever)?

The first one's free, second is 1, third is 2, yadda yadda yadda. Nothing horrible, but it seems like it could add up and "snowball" into something fairly disabling.

[bclements]

Depends on the beer.

[Heath Robinson]

I'm not entirely sure that DV is the best way to simulate alcohol in Shadowrun. Though, should you want to, I'd prefer to use the toxin rules. I don't think that the book-keeping for individual drinks is a good thing to have when your characters are knocking back drinks as fast as some real life people can.

There's also the resistance roll and the difficulty in adjudicating when that DV resets. A low (3-4?) power toxin with Stun damage and Disorientation and "Alcohol abuse" vector might be a better selection. Call the speed an hour, maybe half? Add a version with several times the exposure time and Paralysis added to the list of effects if you want to cover more indepth alcohol abuse. Note to extend the Disorientation effects duration and allow it to stack up (should be a basic feature of toxins imo). I remind you that concentration rules basically say "if you're using higher dosages, increase the power by an amount determined by the GM".

[Kerberos]

Some sort of negative modifier to Dice pools and perhaps especially reaction would seem reasonable. Add in a pain resistance bonus. Body would influence how much alcohol it would take to get a given effect and how long it lasted.

[vladski]

I would think use Body.

An average size guy (weighs around 160-180 pounds and would have a body of maybe 2-3) can drink a couple beers an hour for hours on end with little effect.

I would do something like drinks equal to body rating are free for the hour. After that roll body as a threshold test:

First drink beyond Body = Body test
Second drink beyond Body=Body(2) test
Third drink beyond Body = Body(3) test
Etc.

Failure per drink= -1 to all skills for an hour, and you regain one point an hour for each hour you stop drinking and your body test level drops one.

When negatives to skills = the number of stun boxes you have total, you pass out.
(Note: you aren't actually taking stun damage. It's just a convenient level that seems appropriate.)

This is of course calling "1 drink" to be a 12-16 oz serving of beer, 6 oz serving of wine, or a 1 1/2 oz shot of 80 proof whiskey/vodka etc. Needless to say that some alcohols are higher than that and should be treated as perhaps two drinks per "drink." Also, for mixed drinks, many are the equivalent of two or more drinks per container.

Example:

A Body 2 guy drinks one particularly strong Long Island Ice Tea and that is all he can safely do for an hour. He has another one, I would immediatly go to a Body(2) test. Another, I would do a Body(4) test. Any regular guy that slams down 3 strong Long Islands in an hour is GONNA feel it. It might only be a minus 1, but it's there.

Vlad

[DocTaotsu]

Honestly I was just looking for some fast toxin rules (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Honestly I was just looking for some fast toxin rules (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wow, first read this as "Fast Food Toxins", and was wondering how Stuffer Shack NukIt Meals got involved with drinking...

I thought those were for after the drinking contest in order to try and sober up.

Or a drunken dare.

Whichever...

[Earlydawn]

Additionally, you might also want to hit people harder if they have the bioware that requires increased caloric intake, as I imagine they'd metabolize it faster. If anybody played Deus Ex, the alcohol hit you like a HAMMER and then faded in no time.. logic being that the nanites went nuts digesting it.

Obviously, Dwarves should be more resistant to alcohol, fitting with both myth and their resistance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Elves, on average, would probably get drunk faster as they have a lower average body mass. Trolls have more mass to them, but I'd imagine they'd be drinking something that would probably kill the other metatypes anyway..

[Cain]

A Body 2 guy drinks one particularly strong Long Island Ice Tea and that is all he can safely do for an hour. He has another one, I would immediatly go to a Body(2) test. Another, I would do a Body(4) test. Any regular guy that slams down 3 strong Long Islands in an hour is GONNA feel it. It might only be a minus 1, but it's there.

I'm only a "regular guy", but in my younger days, I could drink 3 Long Islands in an hour and not really feel it. Depends somewhat on how they're made, of course.

However, I think your Body tests are pretty fair. I'd only go with 1 per drink, however, since some people just naturally have a higher tolerance than others, independant of their body score.

[CanRay]

And some have a lower tolerance...

One favourite story I have is from GenCon a few years back. Got to meet some friends for the first time, and we hit the bar...

Me, being Canadian, was able to drink the US Potency Beer with no issues whatsoever, despite not being a real "Drinker". One of my friends, however, was holding onto the table half-way through her first beer.

[Rad]

Willpower should definitely come into effect here, that might be a good way to model the "some guys have better tolerance, independant of Body" bit.

I once had a drinking contest with a portugese neighbor involving some really good imported tequilla.

And by "imported", I mean "purchased in Mexico and brough across the border because this stuff they don't import."

Long story short, we finished the bottle and part of another one, and the next day they called a freind of mine to ask if I was OK. I was fine, they just couldn't beleive I kept up with Ray without suffering any ill effects. (The guy definitely had a higher body than me.) The thing is, I don't drink often and can get buzzed pretty easily, but if I actually try to hold it together I can drink alot and still be fully functional.

I'm not as familliar with SR game mechanics, but I'd say make it a body test like a normal toxin, but have the option of making a willpower test to overcome the effects temporarily. So what happens is that you're rolling a willpower test every time you take an action to avoid taking the "I'm so wasted" modifiers.

[Wounded Ronin]

Due to the enlightening influence of Deus Ex, any and all beer in a cyberpunk setting must be a 40 ounce bottle of malt liquor, and it must heal a small amount of hitpoints when consumed.

EDIT: here http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...p=0&#entry0

[Rad]

Maybe add pain tolerance to the toxin's effects?

Pain Tolerance and disorientation?

Hmm, I'm probably going to stat this up now--just because I've made so many characters with the Addiction: Alcohol quality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Kingmaker]

But if you are going to do that then you should be able to regrow a leg by drinking from the water fountain for 5 minutes.

[CanRay]

Another game that has the Grim and the Gritty (Which is a different thread, but nonetheless) is Condemned 2: Bloodshot, which I rented to tide me over until GTA IV comes out.

All throughout that game at bottles of hooch that actually STEADY your aim. Some of the bottles are quite identifyable, and I called out brands as the animation performed the drink action.

Which probably says something about me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

But if you are going to do that then you should be able to regrow a leg by drinking from the water fountain for 5 minutes.

No, the water fountain permanently runs out of water before 5 minutes of straight drinking.

[Heath Robinson]

Willpower should definitely come into effect here, that might be a good way to model the "some guys have better tolerance, independant of Body" bit.

I once had a drinking contest with a portugese neighbor involving some really good imported tequilla.

And by "imported", I mean "purchased in Mexico and brough across the border because this stuff they don't import."

Long story short, we finished the bottle and part of another one, and the next day they called a freind of mine to ask if I was OK. I was fine, they just couldn't beleive I kept up with Ray without suffering any ill effects. (The guy definitely had a higher body than me.) The thing is, I don't drink often and can get buzzed pretty easily, but if I actually try to hold it together I can drink alot and still be fully functional.

I'm not as familliar with SR game mechanics, but I'd say make it a body test like a normal toxin, but have the option of making a willpower test to overcome the effects temporarily. So what happens is that you're rolling a willpower test every time you take an action to avoid taking the "I'm so wasted" modifiers.

Willpower affects your Stun damage track, so that can help with dealing with the stun damage. I'd also say you should be able to make a composure check or something to help you avoid making the effects obvious to those around you.

Shall I repeat what I stated; I do not think that a drink-by-drink system is worth the bookkeeping, nor do I beleive that the thresholds should increase with every drink. Since we're running an RPG using humans we can modify the effects to suit the cause. Using a power 3 toxin doing stun damage and disorientation for an hour of relatively heavy drinking should have an impact that models the effects well enough, so long as you extend the effects of disorientation.

Joe "Mean" McAverage (Body 2) goes out with his mates Douglas Nerdmeister (Body 1) and Steve Musclehead (Body 3); all of them drink a couple of pints in their first hour. Doug rolls no hits on the resistance test, so he gets the full impact of the abuse and feels a little woozy, having been hit with an extended Disorientation (at least an hour) and 3S for a temporary -3 modifier. Joe and Steve both roll a hit, so they're feeling a little bit better. Given that they're looking to drown their stress after a drudging day of work, they decide not to call it quits here, despite Doug's complaints. They kick up the rate of intake and really hit the shots for an hour. The GM rules that this increased concentration equals a power 5 toxin instead. Doug manages to roll a hit, so he's only taking 4S but is still going to be quite disoriented. Joe rolls 2 hits and takes 3S and disorientation, he feels pretty bad but not as bad as Doug does. Steve rolls 3 hits and feels only the slightest bit better than Joe (both are still at -3). Doug really won't make another test and he begs off, saying he's got to get up early and is feeling really terrible.

Joe and Steve try to find someone else to drink with and share stories. They find Sam O'Tank (Body 5, Nephritic Screen 4) and proceed to revert back to drinking beer. Joe rolls no hits against the P3 toxin and gets to a total of 8 boxes off on his monitor, he's really not going to be able to take another hour of this. Steve rolls a hit as well and hits 7 boxes off. Sam rolls three hits and calls the Shiawase soybeers a load of crap, calling for something a little bit stronger. Another hour of shots, another Power 5 toxin effect. Joe rolls no hits and overflows into physical - Steve rolls a single hit and also overflows into physical, but less than Joe. Sam rolls a few hits and ends up taking 2S and Disorientation. He notices that his newfound friends are unconscious - luckily they have DocWagon contracts so a team arrives and carts them away to get their stomachs pumped.

(I took "Wall of text" as a specialisation off my Cybercombat skill.)

[WearzManySkins]

Wonder if Trolls would get the ability that Andre The Giant had for alcohol?
Modern Drunkard Magazine on Andre

119 beers in six hours

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[Rad]

(I took "Wall of text" as a specialisation off my Cybercombat skill.)

Me too, but I've been trying to raise my Etiquette (Matrix Chat Rooms) skill recently... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I agree with you for the most part, I just think the characters should be able to make a Willpower roll to "hold it together" for one action and suppress the disorientation modifiers. But real world experience doesn't always jive with tabletop gaming.

[Edit]

Interestingly enough, that Portuguese neighbor I drank the tequila with used to know Andre. They have a bunch of pictures of him hanging out in their living room with them--don't know if Ray ever drank with Andre though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[/edit]

[vladski]

I'm only a "regular guy", but in my younger days, I could drink 3 Long Islands in an hour and not really feel it. Depends somewhat on how they're made, of course.

However, I think your Body tests are pretty fair. I'd only go with 1 per drink, however, since some people just naturally have a higher tolerance than others, independant of their body score.

I am only a regular guy too and I have a pretty high tolerance for alcohol myself. I can still down a 750 of Bushmill's by myself over a 6 hour period and function pretty well and only have a middlin' hangover the next day. I actually did that for the first time in a LONG time last February.

I was trying to come up with a usable system that seemed fair and average and simple to use. Hell, a person could take "Alcohol tolerance" as a knowledge skill. All it would require is drinking fairly large quantities on a regular basis, not mixing your types of drinks, knowing what foods best to eat before and during drinking, etc. I'd allow the dice to be rolled with your Body test.

Vlad

[vladski]

And some have a lower tolerance...

One favourite story I have is from GenCon a few years back. Got to meet some friends for the first time, and we hit the bar...

Me, being Canadian, was able to drink the US Potency Beer with no issues whatsoever, despite not being a real "Drinker". One of my friends, however, was holding onto the table half-way through her first beer.

It's a proven fact (I jsut read it last year in some news story) that the average woman, of the same body weight/mass as an average man, does not process alcohol as well. Obviously, individuals will vary.

And, as you said, alcohol affects individuals differently, and not always the same for the same person. Sometimes it takes more to get drunk, sometimes less. That's why I like the idea of Body tests. It's never a perfect science.

Vlad

[vladski]

Another game that has the Grim and the Gritty (Which is a different thread, but nonetheless) is Condemned 2: Bloodshot, which I rented to tide me over until GTA IV comes out.

All throughout that game at bottles of hooch that actually STEADY your aim. Some of the bottles are quite identifyable, and I called out brands as the animation performed the drink action.

Which probably says something about me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Hey, I shoot pool better with a few drinks in me. It's the relaxation factor. Obviously, completely plastered is completely plastered. Tho, via willpower and a real effort to hold it together you might still see improvements due to your utmost care. Alcoholic influence is hard to "stat."

Then there was the major league pitcher that threw a no hitter while cooking his ass off on LSD.

Vlad

[Wounded Ronin]

Shall I repeat what I stated; I do not think that a drink-by-drink system is worth the bookkeeping, nor do I beleive that the thresholds should increase with every drink. Since we're running an RPG using humans we can modify the effects to suit the cause. Using a power 3 toxin doing stun damage and disorientation for an hour of relatively heavy drinking should have an impact that models the effects well enough, so long as you extend the effects of disorientation.

You've got to be kidding me. A drink-by-drink system would be the highlight of the evening. Complete with rules for water consumption and food consumption, and penalties to athletics tests due to the liver being occupied with detoxing the alcohol. Think about the detailed, tactical drinking contests you'd have!

This would be but a single step to a complex rule set for drunken boxing a la Jackie Chan.

[Heath Robinson]

You've got to be kidding me. A drink-by-drink system would be the highlight of the evening. Complete with rules for water consumption and food consumption, and penalties to athletics tests due to the liver being occupied with detoxing the alcohol. Think about the detailed, tactical drinking contests you'd have!

This would be but a single step to a complex rule set for drunken boxing a la Jackie Chan.

I'm sure the world is impoverished by the loss.