 Guns |
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 Oct 18 2005, 03:15 PM
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#101
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Rehovot, Israel Member No.: 265  |
Thank you for the usable house rule, which I'm going to use. A simple solution for this problem; increasing rifles to -3 AP and snipers to -4 or -5 AP could also be considered. Far easier to fix than SR1/SR2/SR3's light pistols/machine pistols (which I fixed by considering them as always using Flechette rounds - that got them to M damage but with BAD penetration). |
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Oct 18 2005, 05:22 PM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
The Assault Rifles vs. Pistols vs. Armor thing can be partially explained by very high tensile strength armor materials. If nothing gets through armor and everything just bludgeons the target, then higher total kenetic energy is superior to kenetic energy per area. Shadowrun does appear to have very advanced armor technology - I don't know what the theoretical limits are for carbon nanotube weave + stiff ribbing, but I bet it could stop a 5.56 round cold.
The SMG vs. Heavy Pistol statting makes even more sense. By the rules as written, ammo can't be shared between SMGs and Heavy Pistols - this implies to me that Heavy Pistols use higher recoil rounds that wouldn't be as effective for autofire (don't think about the SR4 recoil rules, think about the fact that pistol recoil could almost break your wrist, and a 3 rould burst is triple that force). |
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Oct 18 2005, 08:23 PM
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#103
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Sure. If it's thick enough... You'd probably need something quite a bit thicker/more rigid than what's currently worn as flexible body armor to make it stop a 5.56x45mm FMJ. [Edit]Looking at the respective Young's Moduli, and considering how much Dyneema/Spectra you need to stop 5.56x45mm M855s, I can't rule out that it might just be possible to make a flexible vest out of that stuff. This, of course, completely ignores any possibility of cartridge and weapon development, as well as most of the descriptions of the items in question.[/Edit]
If nothing got through armor, nobody would be stupid enough to buy any sort of armor piercing ammunition, or indeed show any kind of preference towards the quality of armor piercing in small arms ammunition. That's clearly not the case. Not that it'd matter. As far as kinetic energy is concerned, rifles own pistols.
Not saying I agree, but how, then, would you excuse the differences between Light Pistols and SMGs as they relate to Heavy Pistols? This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Oct 18 2005, 08:32 PM |
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Oct 18 2005, 10:05 PM
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#104
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
The difference from 5P to 6P isn't just 20% more damage for assault rifles. Frequently lots of that damage gets soaked up. Usually when I get wounded it's 1-2. That means 1P extra does double or 50% more damage to me. If it actually did more than that it'd be doing triple damage when it hits a well armored person compared to a pistol.
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Oct 19 2005, 06:17 PM
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#105
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no good way to explain the stats for firearms in the SR4 BBB. So I've scrapped them, along with the armor stats, and re-worked them into something that makes (IMO) a LOT more sense.
Of course, this has been done with a few caveats: #1 No real substantial advancements are made in ammunition over the next 70 years. #2 Body armor technology improves slightly in terms of what it can stop, and how lightweight/wearable it is. My rules pretty much echo Raygun's, albeit with 4th edition mechanics. If anyone is interested in them, just let me know. |
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