Defaulting Dodge skill Options

[Thanee]

[lorechaser]

I'm really surprised you guys are this bent out of shape over this. ;) I can see the logical issue you have, but Thanee's point addresses that just fine. And this particular use destroying your faith in SR4 amuses me, because there are 1. Far bigger issues in SR4 and 2. just people designing it, not gods....

To me, it's easy. Do you have any skill at dodging? No? Then take all the time you want, you're not going to be any better at dodging bullets. Your better off finding cover and getting behind it. No skill at dodging means you have no innate sense of anticipation - you just react to what happens. Having a skill at dodging means you can somewhat (or very much) read events, and react to them.

If you have no skill at dodging, then all the time in the world won't matter - you're still taking your gut instinct. If you decide to spend time staring at the person attacking (full defense), then you just wasted time.

Your POV is that someone that has no dodge should get a bonus from full defense. My POV is that there's no reason for that. It's like someone that doesn't know how to use explosives taking more time to set them. They still can't use them.

They should use alternate methods, like getting to cover. Does that mean that someone who put skill points in dodge has an advantage (as you can't take a "Full Get To Cover" defense)? Yes, yes it does.

[Ravor]

Totally agree lorechaser, totally agree.

[Aaron]

[Chunky_Salsa]

That's some good sound wording lorechaser!

Would you go with something like: Dodge is non defaultable in combat situations(If you don't have it, you don't get it), but defaultable in dodging boulders(So players without it can still get some roll (reaction-1) to get out of the way of things)?

[Eleazar]

Defaulting is used when you are doing a dice roll which involves a skill+the linked attribute. In the event you do not have the skill you can default rolling the linked attribute -1. A full defense does not fall under this because you are not making a test with a skill+the linked attribute. If this was the case, then for a full defense you would roll reaction+(reaction+dodge). For a gymnastics dodge it would be reaction+(agility+gymnastics). There is no linked attribute that is being rolled in a full defense. You are simply rolling JUST your skill. The only reason reaction is being rolled is due to the ranged combat rules. Since you are only rolling JUST reaction it is a attribute only test. A full defense combines an attribute only test with dodge dice. There is nothing in the text to suggest you are rolling the skill(dodge) plus the linked attribute(reaction) as a skill test. This is especially the case for a melee full defense which can actually involve one attribute and two different skills with two different linked attributes to form the dice pool. I don't think this logic follows of defaulting to reaction-1 in the explained scenario.

Dodge is defaultable because it is involved in some tests. For example, when you are driving and trying to ram a pedestrian they roll reaction+dodge to get out of the way. This is a perfectly defaultable test.

[Ophis]

[laughingowl]