Grunt Survival Guide, How to kill PCs with low-powered opposition. Options

[Ryu]

Didn´t I just see someone resurrect a 2008 post? We wouldn´t have trouble with time-limited licenses, no?

[PBTHHHHT]

Heh, it's always interesting to read stuff that I've posted awhile back and had forgotten. Some stuff are interesting and others, meh.

[Ryu]

I think I saw posts from you before... stuff keeps collecting over the years.

[Deadmannumberone]

Practicing thread necromancy, huh?(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

It's allowed in this instance due to the tread containing this post:

WARNING: LONG POST WHICH CONTAINS MY THOUGHTS ON THE TOPIC, BUT DOES NOT DIRECTLY RESPOND TO ANY PREVIOUS POINTS. FEEL FREE TO SKIP.

[Method]

Is any of this making sense to anybody else, cuz I'm lost.

This was an awesome thread tho...

[FriendoftheDork]

Perhaps this is why I don't play SR4.

I am really absolutely floored that they would make it a rule that all grunts use the same stats.

There is no such rule, it's just toturi who thinks that. There are example NPC grunts who for simplicity share the same stats just like typical orcs in D&D share the same stats. I don't think there's an RPG that doesn't have some sort of "grunt" template where several minor enemies share the same or similar attributes.

Of course that does not at all limit what stats any NPC in SR4 can have, and it is up to the GM to decide on this. Anyone with a bit of sense who reads the NPC chapter in SR4 understands this.

Hmm already answered, but this is what happens when you necro a strange thread in the ass.

[TommyTwoToes]

Tasers are cheap, extremely effective, and could easily be acquired for a ganger.

Nothing says low budget killing like the AK-97. 4-5 guys firing suppression with AK-97's while the rest of the gang goes for aimed fire will chew though defenses like nobodies business.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Nothing says low budget killing like the AK-97. 4-5 guys firing suppression with AK-97's while the rest of the gang goes for aimed fire will chew though defenses like nobodies business.

Doubtless, and the AK is one of the most common weapons world-wide for a reason. Cheap, durable and good performance.

[Marshwiggle]

It may have been thread necromancy, but I'd never seen this thread, which is truly awesome.

[Doc Chase]

It may have been thread necromancy, but I'd never seen this thread, which is truly awesome.

This, actually. It gives me plenty of ideas for a DocWagon-themed game I'm running in the near future.

Tuesday, you can stop reading this thread now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[da Loof]

As we've established, the environment is the best way for someone to take down high-budget opposition.

One of my personal favorites (also an IRL method used by special forces)

Bury a nail shallowly underground. Place a bullet, face up, on top of the nail, so that just the tip (or not even that) barely pokes through. Someone steps on the bullet, pushes the nail/caltrop tip into the bullet's primer rocket, and BOOM! Instant lindmine! Blow your foot clean off. Indoors, when buring is not an option, one could just attach the bullet in the same manner to the tip of some caltrops, although this method is more visible.

Now, this can be combined with some of the other tactics outlined here to turn any room into an instant hellhole. Indoors, you tape the bullet to caltrops, scatter them in the middle of the room, and then cover the ground with oil and soap. Burn off some rubber in the next-door room, and let the smoke filter into this rom (to keep people from seeing the caltrops. Intruders walk into the room, slip on the soap (inadverdantly giving them a nice coat of oil. The gasoline-based rubber burning would mask the scent of the oil (but not the soap!), giving the runners the impression that the gangers just poured soap water and stinging smoke into the room to slow them down. The runners walk a little bit into the room (no caltrops yet, to allow all the runners to get in before the fun starts), and FWOOSH! Simultaneously, one runner gets his leg blown off, and the bullet combustion sets the whole room ablaze.

Other ideas:
Replace any commercial fire sprinkler system water supply with something unpleasant (gasoline, any variety of chemicals)
Attach a grenade to the wall near a door, and run a line between the pin and he door. The door moves, the grenade blows. But you've heard that one, probably.
String a wire across a doorway (or any room!), tripwire style, and hook it up to a car battery.
Hook a doorknob up to a car battery (I like car batteries!)
Hook an entire elevator floor up to a couple car batteries, which could easily enough be adhesive-glued to the floor of the elevator.

While we're on the topic of elevators:
1. Glue a couple HE grenades to the external roof of an elevator, so that they're touching the sheave (cable).
2. Attach the pin to a string, and attach the string to the cable of the counterweight.
3. Wait for some sucker to move the elevator. The elevator activates the armor piercing grenades, which would not only chew through the cable, sending the elevator (and the runners inside falling down the shaft, but it would be quite likely to blow a sizable hole through the elevator roof, giving the runners some of that explosive action.

I'm trying to think of something that involves the fire sprinkler system and the electricity system. I'm not sure if there'd be enough water present in the air to condut any lethal volume of wattage. If it did work, though, the runners would would be faced with (or more likely, in the middle of) a room that's filled with raindrops soaring through the place, and lightning bolts buzzing from droplet to droplet. Scary stuff!

[Falanin]

Hm, and since I wasn't here for the original barrens/z-zone debate... I always picture the gaza strip, rather than the favelas or Mogadishu when I think barrens. Somewhere where things still work... after a fashion... but noone not native wants to go there. Walled off and contained, with lots of violence around the edges.

EDIT: and the gangs (hamas, etc) providing most basic services.

[AStarshipforAnts]

This, actually. It gives me plenty of ideas for a DocWagon-themed game I'm running in the near future.

Tuesday, you can stop reading this thread now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

You got it, Doc.

[Doc Chase]

Shock traps + water are just going to blow your breakers. If you want to do it, get nails long enough to penetrate a rubber sole and have them hooked into the mainline. Car batteries aren't going to do the job you want.

I'm not terribly sold on the poor man's landmine with the nail/bullet combo. It's way too easy to shift the point off the primer before/during the step. It would be more expedient for a gangbanger to juryrig a shotgun or assault rifle to fire with a tripwire, but then you're losing a shotgun or assault rifle.

I can't get past the notion that street-level opposition is going to readily annihilate their homes to stop a bunch of 'runners. Traps to slow or push them into killzones, that I can see. But to be ready to level a building to kill five guys? That's maybe a bit much.

[Ryu]

While we're on the topic of elevators:
1. Glue a couple HE grenades to the external roof of an elevator, so that they're touching the sheave (cable).
2. Attach the pin to a string, and attach the string to the cable of the counterweight.
3. Wait for some sucker to move the elevator. The elevator activates the armor piercing grenades, which would not only chew through the cable, sending the elevator (and the runners inside falling down the shaft, but it would be quite likely to blow a sizable hole through the elevator roof, giving the runners some of that explosive action.

The cabin wouldn´t drop much in case of modern lifts, as the brakes work in case of cable failure. The explosive action on the other hand would be a grenade attack without deviation, with (being generous) a +4 dicepool mod for the damage resistance test. Deadly trick.

[Deadmannumberone]

The cabin wouldn´t drop much in case of modern lifts, as the brakes work in case of cable failure. The explosive action on the other hand would be a grenade attack without deviation, with (being generous) a +4 dicepool mod for the damage resistance test. Deadly trick.

The emergency brakes rely on the integrity of the elevator's walls and roof to operate.

[Ryu]

The emergency brakes rely on the integrity of the elevator's walls and roof to operate.

Ok, one could call the mayhem caused "sufficient to destroy the whole cabin". I assume the cabin would have a lot of holes, but survive.

Every living being inside would be red mist, so the difference is just in the flavour. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[nezumi]

Bury a nail shallowly underground. Place a bullet, face up, on top of the nail, so that just the tip (or not even that) barely pokes through. Someone steps on the bullet, pushes the nail/caltrop tip into the bullet's primer rocket, and BOOM! Instant lindmine! Blow your foot clean off.

Ignoring the difficulty of keeping a pullet properly aligned on the nail, especially when trod upon, and the silliness of holding the bullet yourself as you try to tap it into place on top of said nail, no, it wouldn't blow your foot off. If a NORMAL bullet doesn't blow feet off, this certainly won't, since it lacks the acceleration from the barrel. IF it worked, I would be surprised if it did more than leave a nasty bruise and make a loud noise. After all, last I checked, shadowrunners don't normally go around barefoot.

Replace any commercial fire sprinkler system water supply with something unpleasant (gasoline, any variety of chemicals)
Attach a grenade to the wall near a door, and run a line between the pin and he door. The door moves, the grenade blows. But you've heard that one, probably.

This one's very neat but you'll need to make it a phosphorous grenade, and even then it won't actually start the sprinklers for a while. The sprinklers in normal buildings are activated by sufficient continuous heat to melt a ball of wax. Without that, it'll never start (and even if it did, a standard grenade doesn't leave enough fire following the explosion to reliably light your gas).

I'm trying to think of something that involves the fire sprinkler system and the electricity system. I'm not sure if there'd be enough water present in the air to condut any lethal volume of wattage. If it did work, though, the runners would would be faced with (or more likely, in the middle of) a room that's filled with raindrops soaring through the place, and lightning bolts buzzing from droplet to droplet. Scary stuff!

Do keep in mind that in a standard building, each sprinkler operates INDEPENDENTLY. A fire under one sprinkler means one sprinkler goes off.


I wonder if it would be possible to take advantage of the raise floors/drop ceilings common in most office buildings these days. It's possible to stuff a LOT of explosive punch under those raised ceilings, and it would be pretty easy to tuck a pressure pad in there, and the drop ceilings have enough space for easily two squads of drop bears.

[Doc Chase]

Ignoring the difficulty of keeping a pullet properly aligned on the nail, especially when trod upon, and the silliness of holding the bullet yourself as you try to tap it into place on top of said nail, no, it wouldn't blow your foot off. If a NORMAL bullet doesn't blow feet off, this certainly won't, since it lacks the acceleration from the barrel. IF it worked, I would be surprised if it did more than leave a nasty bruise and make a loud noise. After all, last I checked, shadowrunners don't normally go around barefoot.



This one's very neat but you'll need to make it a phosphorous grenade, and even then it won't actually start the sprinklers for a while. The sprinklers in normal buildings are activated by sufficient continuous heat to melt a ball of wax. Without that, it'll never start (and even if it did, a standard grenade doesn't leave enough fire following the explosion to reliably light your gas).



Do keep in mind that in a standard building, each sprinkler operates INDEPENDENTLY. A fire under one sprinkler means one sprinkler goes off.


I wonder if it would be possible to take advantage of the raise floors/drop ceilings common in most office buildings these days. It's possible to stuff a LOT of explosive punch under those raised ceilings, and it would be pretty easy to tuck a pressure pad in there, and the drop ceilings have enough space for easily two squads of drop bears.

Setting up a spike trap under a raised floor isn't hard. Heck, the Bastard Operator From Hell series is chock full of office traps an enterprising mook can set up. Best of all, there's a lot of physical traps that hackers can activate as well. Worth the read.

[PBTHHHHT]

Ignoring the difficulty of keeping a pullet properly aligned on the nail, especially when trod upon, and the silliness of holding the bullet yourself as you try to tap it into place on top of said nail, no, it wouldn't blow your foot off. If a NORMAL bullet doesn't blow feet off, this certainly won't, since it lacks the acceleration from the barrel. IF it worked, I would be surprised if it did more than leave a nasty bruise and make a loud noise. After all, last I checked, shadowrunners don't normally go around barefoot.

Makes me think of the mythbusters episode where they put bullets in an oven and heated it up until it went off vs. a loaded gun in the oven. IIRC, the bullets outside of the gun while it made nasty dings inside the oven, they just weren't as nasty as the loaded gun as it went through the barrel of the gun, etc...

[Dumori]

I think that a temporary tube to stick the bullet landmine in would help. But one would be better of building "zip"gun/rifle traps. Just a smooth bore tube packed with power and shot or made to load a certain caliber round. Sure SS and a bugger to reload but build them in the the walls just wallpered over or the floors ect and you an set up kill rooms the when trigered volly a good number of muskets across the room. If you have much more to burn nuyen wise do the dame but with metalstorm tech to allow multiple uses or have it set to volly a set amount of tubes only, with tigeres setting off different any maybe slightly overlapping sets. I would treat like supressive fire aganst a suprised target at least the first time it happens.

[Method]

It may have been thread necromancy, but I'd never seen this thread, which is truly awesome.

There are some real gems around these parts. Personally I'm a big fan of the search engine, not because its user friendly (it certainly isn't) but because I'd rather see necromancy of quality threads than rehashes of the same old drivel.

[Tyro]

There are some real gems around these parts. Personally I'm a big fan of the search engine, not because its user friendly (it certainly isn't) but because I'd rather see necromancy of quality threads than rehashes of the same old drivel.

Hear, HEAR!

[toturi]

There is no such rule, it's just toturi who thinks that. There are example NPC grunts who for simplicity share the same stats just like typical orcs in D&D share the same stats. I don't think there's an RPG that doesn't have some sort of "grunt" template where several minor enemies share the same or similar attributes.

Of course that does not at all limit what stats any NPC in SR4 can have, and it is up to the GM to decide on this. Anyone with a bit of sense who reads the NPC chapter in SR4 understands this.

Hmm already answered, but this is what happens when you necro a strange thread in the ass.

As I have stated before, these stats are the ones printed. There is no rule that all Grunts use the same stats, but there is a limited amount of stats printed for Grunts. The NPC Grunts are example of those NPCs of their caliber and skillset.

If the GM wants to change or alter them, he is free to do so, but then those altered stats would be no longer RAW. Anyone with a bit of sense would understand this. So if you want to say "I as the GM decided to screw the PCs over and stat these gangbangers with good tactical skills and ingenious minds, when most of their peers spend their time, bullying people and getting doped out", then it is up to you.

[The Jopp]

Cheap SMG's and Heavy Pistols

Capsule Rounds with DMSO/ Pepper Punch

Pepper Punch Grenades

It WILL incapacitate som of the team and also affect the other half.

-Ambush
-Dice bonus for the opposition being in a known territory